British Submarine Losses in Mediterranean

[Webmaster]

Posted by Jim H: Tue Jun 03, 2003

Some interesting stats regarding British Submarine losses in Med. Most were obviously from Italian Torpedo Boats and mines:

Grampus 13.6.40 Sunk off Port Augusta, Sicily, in Mediterranean, by Italian torpedo boats

Odin 14.6.40 Sunk in Mediterranean

Orpheus 26.6.40 Sunk by gunfire from Italian ship Strale in the Gulf of Taranto, in the Mediterranean.

Phoenix 17.7.40 Depth charged and sunk by Italian torpedo boat off Sicily, in the Mediterranean.

Oswald 1.8.40 Rammed and sunk by Italian destroyer Vivaldi in Mediterranean

Rainbow 19.10.40 Sunk in Mediterranean. Possibly by Italian s/m Enrico Toti by gunfire.

Triad 20.10.40 Sunk in Mediterranean. Possibly by Italian s/m Enrico Toti by gunfire.

Regulus 6.12.40 Lost in Strait of Otranto, Mediterranean, cause unknown.

Triton 18.12.40 Lost on patrol in lower Adriatic.

Usk 3.5.41 Mined and sunk off Cape Bon, Tunisia, Mediterranean

Undaunted 13.5.41 Lost off Tripoli, Mediterranean, probably mined.

Union 22.7.41 Sunk in Mediterranean by Italian torpedo boat off Pantellaria.

Cachalot 4.8.41 Rammed and sunk by Italian torpedo boat Papa off Cyrenaica, in the Mediterranean. Scuttled to avoid capture.

P33 20.8.41 Sunk in Mediterranean, believed mined off Tripoli.

P32 23.8.41 Sunk in Mediterranean, believed mined off Tripoli.

Tetrarch 2.11.41 Sunk in Mediterranean, believed mined in the Strait of Sicily.

Perseus 1.12.41 Hit mine and sunk off Cephalonia, Greece.

Triumph 20.1.42 Sunk in the Mediterranean, presumed mined in the Aegean Sea, off Milos.

Tempest 13.2.42 Attacked and sunk by Italian torpedo boat in Mediterranean

P38 25.2.42 Depth charged and sunk by Italian torpedo boat in Mediterranean

P39 26.3.42 Bombed and sunk by aircraft at Malta

P36 1.4.42 Bombed and sunk by aircraft at Malta

Pandora 1.4.42 Bombed and sunk by aircraft at Malta

Upholder 14.4.42 Depth charged and sunk off Tripoli, in Mediterranean.

Urge 6.5.42 Depth charged and sunk by Italian torpedo boat off Tripoli, in Mediterranean

Olympus 8.5.42 Hit mine and sunk in swept channel leaving Malta.

Thorn 6.8.42 Depth charged and sunk by Italian torpedo boat Pegaso
between Crete and Tripoli, in Mediterranean

Talisman 18.9.42 Sunk in the Mediterranean, presumed mined in Strait of Sicily.

Utmost 24.11.42 Depth charged and sunk by Italian torpedo boat off the west coast of Sicily.

P222 12.12.42 Sunk by Italian torpedo boat off Naples, Mediterranean.

Traveller 12.12.42 Sunk in the Mediterranean, presumed mined in Gulf of Taranto.

P48 25.12.42 Depth charged and sunk by Italian corvettes off Zemba Island in Gulf of Tunis.

P311 8.1.43 Sunk in the Mediterranean, presumed mined north of Corsica.

Tigris 10.3.43 Sunk in Mediterranean, presumed mined.

Thunderbolt 13.3.43 Depth charged and sunk by Italian A/S boat Cicogna off St.Vito, north of Sicily.

Turbulent 23.3.43 Depth charged and sunk off Maddalena, Sardinia.

Regent 16.4.43 Sunk in the Mediterranean, presumed mined.

Splendid 21.4.43 Sunk in the Mediterranean. Scuttled after depth charge attack by German destroyer off Corsica.

Sahib 24.4.43 Depth charged by Italian corvette Gabbiano, abandoned and scuttled, in Mediterranean

Parthian 11.8.43 Sunk in the Mediterranean, presumed mined in southern Adriatic.

Saracen 18.8.43 Depth charged and sunk by Italian corvette off Bastia.

Usurper 11.10.43 Sunk in the Mediterranean, presumed mined.

Trooper 17.10.43 Lost in the Aegean Sea, possibly mine.

Simoom 19.11.43 Sunk in the Mediterranean, possibly mined off Kos, Greece.

Sickle 18.6.44 Sunk, presumed mined, in the Antikithera Channel in Eastern Mediterranean.

Information from British Submarines of World War Two at http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/losses.html

Additional Notes By Me:

Italian destroyer Strale sinks British submarine HMS Odin off Taranto on 6/13/40 (Date variance).

British submarine HMS Grampus is sunk by Italian destroyers on 6/16/40 (Date Variance).

British submarine HMS Triton is sunk in the Adriatic by Italian torpedo boats on 12/18/40.

British submarine HMS Usk is sunk off the coast of Sicily by Italian destroyers on 5/1/41.

Italian torpedo boat Pleiadi sinks British submarine HMS Undaunted off the coast of Tripoli, Libya.

Italian torpedo boat Achille Papa sinks British submarine HMS Cachalot off Malta on 7/30/41 (Date Variance).

Italian torpedo boat Circe sinks British submarine HMS Tempest off Taranto 2/13/42.

HMS Upholder is sunk by Italian Torpedo Boat Pegaso off the coast of Tripoli, Libya on 4/14/42.

British submarine HMS Urge is sunk by Italian Torpedo Boat Pegaso off the coast of Libya on 4/28/42.

Italian Torpedo Boat Ardente sinks British submarine P48 off the coast of Tunisia on 12/25/42.

Can anyone provide any additional information?

 

[Webmaster]

Posted by EugeneTF: Sun Dec 07, 2003

What kind of additional information?
For example, I can inform, that

— HMS Upholder was PROBABLY depth charged north of Tripoli by Italian DE Pegaso on 14 April 1942.
On the 12th of April, HMS Upholder was ordered to form a patrol line with HMS Urge and HMS Thrasher to intercept a convoy. It is not known if this signal was received and the submarine failed to return to the harbour on her due date. A number of theories exist as to the fate of Upholder, the most likely is that she fell victim to a depth charge attack by the Italian DE Pegaso on 14th April east of Tripoli although no debris was seen and the position of the attack would have put Upholder some 100 miles out of position, however, this can be explained by the submarine changing position to find ‘richer pickings’.

A second theory is that the submarine struck a mine near Tripoli on the night of 11th April, supported by the fact that a submarine was sighted approaching a minefield.

— HMS Odin was Sunk in Gulf of Taranto by Italian DD Baleno on 14 June 1940.
The Italian DD Strale sighted HMS Odin at 23.21 on 13th June. Strale turned to attack, first with torpedoes, and then with gunfire. Strale then attempted to ram the submarine, which fired a torpedo from a stern tube before diving. Having failed to ram the submarine, the Strale launched a pattern of depth charges before returning to her designated patrol. At 0157 the Torpedo Boat Baleno sighted Odin surfacing about 9 miles from the position of the original attack. The Baleno also attempted to ram the submarine, which once again dived to avoid her pursuer. Passing over the area Baleno dropped two depth charges, turned and dropped three more. Later that morning aerial reconnaissance by the Italian Air Force revealed oil slicks in both attack areas. The Italians believed the attacks to be on two separate submarines. But it is believed that both attacks were on Odin. The first badly damaging the submarine, the second finished her off.

And so on...

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Posted by Jim H: Sun Dec 07, 2003

hanks for the additional info....if anyone has anything else to offer..please post

 

[Andreas]

Hi

Some links.

Book review of what is probably the best work in English on the matter, heavily based on Rauber's USMM Official History.

David Greentree: British Submarine vs. Italian Torpedo Boat (Osprey Duel 74)

Four Stars out of Five – Buy Torpdiniera Sagittario – a Spica-class, Perseo-sub class torpedo boat equipped with German ASDIC from early 1942. On 8 February 1942 she detected and rammed…

rommelsriposte.com

Loss of HMS P.38, report by Captain of Circe:

Sinking of HM Submarine P.38 – 23 February 1942

Background This is only indirectly related to Operation CRUSADER, but of interest nevertheless because it shows the increasing sophistication of Italian escort vessels which happened around the tim…

rommelsriposte.com

German sonar on Italian vessels:

German Antisubmarine Equipment on Italian Vessels Pt. 1

Background At the start of the war, the Regia Marina had some successes in anti-submarine warfare, but overall did not perform well, for reasons related to organization, tactics and technology. By …

rommelsriposte.com

Use of German Sonar on Italian vessels – Pt. 2

In a previous post (at this link) I had written about the use of German sonar (S-Geraet) and depth charges by the Italian navy, the Regia Marina. This commenced at the end of 1941, and gave the Reg…

rommelsriposte.com

German Sonar on Italian Vessels – Pt. 3

In the third and, for the moment, final part of this mini series on the use of German S-Gerät sonar on Italian vessels, here is a list of the vessels which had it installed, or were scheduled for i…

rommelsriposte.com

All the best

Andreas

 

[Platon Alexiades]

HMS Upholder was certainly not sunk by the torpedo-boat Pegaso as she was nowhere near the position of the attack on 14 April. The "submarine" was sighted by a CANT seaplane and later assessed to have been a dolphin. Upholder was probably lost on the "T" minefield off Tripoli.

Pegaso could not have sunk HMS Urge off Libya on 28 April 1942 for two compelling reasons:
1. Pegaso was in Taranto harbour at the time.
2. The wreck of HMS Urge was located this year off Valletta (Malta). She was victim of a mine of the MT 13 minefield laid by the 3rd Schnellbooteflottille on the night of 19/20 April 1942. HMS Urge was lost shortly after she sailed on 27 April 1942.

Posted by EugeneTF: Sun Dec 07, 2003

What kind of additional information?
For example, I can inform, that

— HMS Upholder was PROBABLY depth charged north of Tripoli by Italian DE Pegaso on 14 April 1942.
On the 12th of April, HMS Upholder was ordered to form a patrol line with HMS Urge and HMS Thrasher to intercept a convoy. It is not known if this signal was received and the submarine failed to return to the harbour on her due date. A number of theories exist as to the fate of Upholder, the most likely is that she fell victim to a depth charge attack by the Italian DE Pegaso on 14th April east of Tripoli although no debris was seen and the position of the attack would have put Upholder some 100 miles out of position, however, this can be explained by the submarine changing position to find ‘richer pickings’.

A second theory is that the submarine struck a mine near Tripoli on the night of 11th April, supported by the fact that a submarine was sighted approaching a minefield.

— HMS Odin was Sunk in Gulf of Taranto by Italian DD Baleno on 14 June 1940.
The Italian DD Strale sighted HMS Odin at 23.21 on 13th June. Strale turned to attack, first with torpedoes, and then with gunfire. Strale then attempted to ram the submarine, which fired a torpedo from a stern tube before diving. Having failed to ram the submarine, the Strale launched a pattern of depth charges before returning to her designated patrol. At 0157 the Torpedo Boat Baleno sighted Odin surfacing about 9 miles from the position of the original attack. The Baleno also attempted to ram the submarine, which once again dived to avoid her pursuer. Passing over the area Baleno dropped two depth charges, turned and dropped three more. Later that morning aerial reconnaissance by the Italian Air Force revealed oil slicks in both attack areas. The Italians believed the attacks to be on two separate submarines. But it is believed that both attacks were on Odin. The first badly damaging the submarine, the second finished her off.

And so on...

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Posted by Jim H: Sun Dec 07, 2003

hanks for the additional info....if anyone has anything else to offer..please post

 

[Dili]

Regarding Pegaso position Is there any TROM available for Italian ships?

 

[Platon Alexiades]

TROM can be found in the Italian Naval Archives (Ufficio Storico Della Marina Militare) in Rome. They come in the form of a monthly Specchio ("Mirror") for each vessel which records the dates of departure and arrival and destinations, the mileage travelled and sometime the fuel used. If a vessel is lost then it is not a rare occurrence that its Specchio for the last two or three months is also lost. Another source is a yellow card which also records the basic moves (but no mileage or fuel) and can be useful to get the last movements. There are also the mission or patrol reports but getting a precise position on a given date can be a challenge. Italians did not routinely record their positions on a daily basis (as German U-boats for example did) although they will record it if an incident of importance has occurred. And logs are almost impossible to get.

 

[Dili]

Thanks Platon.