• Get Paid to Write for Comando Supremo: We are looking for talented researchers/writers who are fluent in English and can write original content on Italy in World War Two. Please reach out to webmaster@comandosupremo.com if interested!

Catanzaro Division

Dili

Member

A long text of its constitution and arrival.


PS: To Franco, it seems its regiments arrived after 1 June 1940 so we have probably about +8000? men arriving to be added to the Allegati 4 and 5 before 10 June.
 

FrancoFB

Member
Article very interesting, need a style and technical revision, but very informative on the operations

the allegato 5 had it, actually imho around 6,000
 

FrancoFB

Member
The ToE data on the article
pg. 108: CCNN Division 30th august 1939 structure, i left it in italian for take out trouble with the translation, i suppose this is pacetime organization
Comando
2 Legioni CCNN, su tre battaglioni ciascuna
reggimento artiglieria su due gruppi da 75/27, un gruppo da 100/17, due batterie da 65/17, due batterie da 20mm
battaglione mitraglieri
battaglione misto genio
sezione sanità
sezione sussitenza
autosezione mista

in all 348 ufficiali, 392 sottufficiali and 6851 militari di truppa, plus 9 civilian

equipment: 170 fucili mitragliatori, 128 mitragliatrici, 58* mortai da 45, 24 75/27, 12 100/17, 8 65/17, 12 20mm, 197 automezzi vari, 36 trattori, 85 motomezzi
* i think this is a error, 9x6 is 54, the 45 mm mortars had 3 weapons squad. Confirmed in the table a page 311 is reported 54.

CCNN btg structure
Comando
3 compagnie fucilieri
compagnia mitraglieri

29 ufficiali, 27 sottufficiali, 678 militari di truppa
equipment: 9 mortai da 45 (in the Comando), 27 fucili mitragliatori, 12 mitragliatrici, 1 autovettura, 4 autocarri, 1 motociclo

it's noted at the start of war, with the "formazioni di guerra" the legioni would have acquired the 81mm mortar coy and the 65/17 battery, this from the artillery rgt. the 47/32 coy were assigned in later times.
All the units aout the legions were of RE, i suppose minus some element of HQ staff, the commander is from CCNN at example.

On the particular the "21 Gennaio" was under strength mainly in ufficiali and sottufficiali and vehicles, there was not the battaglione mitraglieri (203rd).

pg. 113: AS 40 Division structure
Comando
Compagnia motociclisti
Compagnia da 47/32 (6 ufficiali and 120 other ranks)
2 Reggimenti fanteria su 3 battaglioni, una compagnia mortai da 81 e una batteria da 65/17
Battaglione mitraglieri
Reggimento artiglieria su due gruppi da 75727, un gruppo da 100/17, due batterie da 20mm
battaglione misto genio su una compagnia collegamenti (5 ufficiali, 12 sottufficiali and 151 di truppa) and una compagnia zappatori-artieri
sezione sanità
sezione sussitenza
autosezione mista
Battaglione complementi
Battaglione carri L (possible only)

453 ufficiali, 594 sottoufficiali, 9931 militari di truppa
equipment: 262 fucili mitragliatori, 232 mitragliatrici, 111 mortai da 45, 12 mortai da 81, 8 65/17, 8 47/32, 24 75/27, 12 100/17, 16 da 20mm, 46 L-3 (possibly), 398 automezzi, 249 motomezzi, 36 trattori, 180 biciclette

Later, after the war start, they get an other 2 47/32, and 12 ATR Solothurn.

Actually the Catanzaro the 25th July '40 had 378 ufficiali and 9928 other ranks, and only 98 autoveicoli.
Still at december '40 they had not the 81 mortars, the coy were used as workers
 
Last edited:

Wargames

Member
398 automezzi, 249 motomezzi,

Does this mean 398 cars and 249 trucks?
And, if so, was the 64th Catanzaro listed as landed with :

197 automezzi vari, 36 trattori, 85 motomezzi

Or 197 various cars, 36 tractors, and 85 trucks?

That seems to read more like a description of the 203rd Blackshirt Artillery added to it than for two infantry regiments.

On July 25, 1940 they show only 98 motor vehicles which, again, sounds like what came with the 203rd. In which case, the " 398 automezzi, 249 motomezzi" listed above appear to be non-existent.
 

FrancoFB

Member
motomezzi are (small) motor vehicle with 2 or 3 wheels
automezzi are both cars and trucks,

there are not blackshirt artillery
 

Wargames

Member
Thanks. However, the two infantry regiments of the 64th arrived without artillery. It was assigned the 203rd Artillery from a disbanded Blackshirt division. It's why I thought the landing force seems incorrect. For example, no tractors were used with Austrian-Hungarian artillery because those weapons could not be towed.
 

FrancoFB

Member
The 203rd was a army rgt. the CCNN were only infantry
the statement is false, the KuK artillery can be towed and if you specifically are talking of motor vehicle towing italian built adaptation for the motor vehicles towing
 

Wargames

Member
The 203rd was a army rgt. the CCNN were only infantry
the statement is false, the KuK artillery can be towed and if you specifically are talking of motor vehicle towing italian built adaptation for the motor vehicles towing

I have the 77/28 broke down in three parts for transport on three horse drawn carts and the 100 broke down into two parts for transport. Further, I show Italians trucked all guns that did not have rubber wheels. I even have the trucks used to carry them.

Can anyone clear up this confusion?
 

FrancoFB

Member
the 77/28 can be broken in 3 load for mountain towing, for normal horse towing was one load using a "avantreno", for the motor towing they used one load with the "carrello elastico". for the 100/17 is similar.
 
Top