• As some of you know, the old forum database was deleted by the previous administrator. I am attempting to paste any retrievable discussions back into this forum using the internet archive. It won't look pretty - but at least we can preserve some valuable information. Feel free to add to the discussions as these old posts are restored.

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    Military or history bookshops in Florence or Bologna?

    Anybody knows military or history bookshops in Florence or Bologna?
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    1937 German handbook on Italian army

    Of, course. But that's what I wanted to find - details on pre-1938 organization.
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    Organization of the infantry

    According to the manual it was 3 squads of 13 men each. Plus platoon commander and his orderly. Total 41 men.
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    1937 German handbook on Italian army

    Found it here: http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/ru/nodes/1028#page/1/mode/grid/zoom/1 Some good details on contemporary organization. Unfortunately, it is incomplete.
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    History of the Italian squadra fanteria (Infantry squad)

    Thank you for clarifying this issue. I wonder, if those books were also official sources of the doctrine and not merely a handbooks to clarify it to the troops?
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    MVSN military organizations (all levels)

    MVSN short story (in Italian): http://www.regioesercito.it/milizia/mvsnstoria.htm Basic MVSN military organization was the infantry battalion. AFAIK, it was never similar to the Army infantry battalion - it was always smaller and lightly armed. ***************************************** 1929...
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    New section or sub-section

    Thank you! Went to post something on Blackshirts :)
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    History of the Italian squadra fanteria (Infantry squad)

    First - the quote. It's from p.449 of volume 2, tome 1 of "La Storia della dottrina e degli ordinamenti dell’Esercito Italiano". "Il rapporto 2 mitragliatrici leggere — 3 squadre fucilieri si dimostrò inadeguato ed insufficiente, sicché ben presto le mitragliatrici leggere, ferma restando la...
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    History of the Italian squadra fanteria (Infantry squad)

    I don't understand you. How should I discuss your mention of "Addestrameto..." of 1935? BTW, I've found the mention of this platoon reorganization in French "Annuaire Militare" from July 1934. And if I understood it correctly, it mentions this reorganization as an accomplished fact. "Single...
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    History of the Italian squadra fanteria (Infantry squad)

    But you himself proved, that it did not :) You see, when I've read official history "La Storia della dottrina e degli ordinamenti dell’Esercito Italiano", I was surprised to find absolutely nothing on the official sources about 1933 reorganization - just a passing mention without even exact date...
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    Organization of the infantry

    On AHF 1943 booklet on Italian squad is posted: https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=2176933#p2176933 Squad combat order is made, as if somebody deliberately decided to sabotage any attempt of the squad leader to control LMG fire effectively :(
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    History of the Italian squadra fanteria (Infantry squad)

    It's easy to increase platoon strength and armament, when organization is not changed much. Italian units were seriously under-strength, so nobody in the regiments (save HQ officers, who made mobilization plans) actually felt it. But when you make serious changes in the organization, everybody...
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    History of the Italian squadra fanteria (Infantry squad)

    Though the story is still strange. Such change still required changes in the doctrine - yet even Italian official history fails to mention them, though describing other doctrinal documents in great details :\
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    History of the Italian squadra fanteria (Infantry squad)

    I see. So that's the reason I was unable to find anything in 1933 issues of "Rivista Militare"! Unfortunately, it seems, that from 1935 till 1944 "Rivista Militare" stopped to exist. And I was unable to find any other official publications after 1933 :( Had to find some foreign sources, than.
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    US Army Squad

    That's all nice and fine, but my reply was about "teams that could be maneuver separately". To be able to do so, such team at do have: a) designated leader, b) fixed composition and c) doctrinal permission. Those conditions were met by US Army in 1956 squad. From 1942 there was one (LMG) team in...
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    History of the Italian squadra fanteria (Infantry squad)

    Regarding 1933 reorganization. I have some doubts, that is actually happened. Indeed, Italian official history of doctrine and organization says it happened. However, it cites no sources of this new organization. Neither I was able to find anything on such a major reorganization in contemporary...
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    Organization of the infantry

    OK. Than here is my attempt on reconstruction of Italian army standard rifle platoons. I also found some info on CCNN 1929 rifle platoon, but don't know, were to post it :(
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    New section or sub-section

    We also need a section on MVSN and other fascist forces. Where can I post data on Blackshirt squad organization?
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    Merry Christmas!

    Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all forum members!
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    Organization of the infantry

    My reply was about teams. They appeared in US manuals in 1956. Of course, any two soldiers could support each other. Also note, that before 1942 US rifle squads had no LMGs at all - only rifles. Both 1942 and 1944 editions of US FM 7-10 describe entirely different tactics. Term "base of fire"...
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