Exhumation of Benito Mussolini's Body :- 5th Sept 2006

[Webmaster]

by larrusso » Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:42 am

Rome 5th September 2006
Benito Mussolini's grandson Guido Mussolini has asked the Italian Government to exhume his grandfather's remains to find out how he actually met his end.
The partizan who captured him trying to escape to Switzerland in late April 1945 stated that Mussolini, Clara Petacci, et al, met with an "Accident " and was not shot by partisans as was previously reported in all our history books. Any other comments, please.
Mike

---------

by FB » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:06 am

larrusso wrote:Rome 5th September 2006
Benito Mussolini's grandson Guido Mussolini has asked the Italian Government to exhume his grandfather's remains to find out how he actually met his end.
The partizan who captured him trying to escape to Switzerland in late April 1945 stated that Mussolini, Clara Petacci, et al, met with an "Accident " and was not shot by partisans as was previously reported in all our history books. Any other comments, please.
Mike

Just a couple of comments:

1) he was not going to Switzerland.

2) Capt. "Valerio" 's story (i.e. the one that was regarded as the official truth) is nowadays considered a lie, or at least highly dubious.

Best regards

-------------

by Lupo Solitario » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:49 am

Useless...what the hell do you imagine to find in a 60-years-old corpse? The only point in which all versions agree is that he was killed by gunfire.
For the rest, do you think to understand if he died in the morning or dawn? Or a ticket with "I killed him Signed XY"?

If you want to know something you have to look elsewhere, I fear.

------------

by FB » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:40 pm

Lupo Solitario wrote:Useless...what the hell do you imagine to find in a 60-years-old corpse? The only point in which all versions agree is that he was killed by gunfire.
For the rest, do you think to understand if he died in morning or dawn? Or a ticket with "I killed him Signed XY"?

If you want to know something you have to look elsewhere, I fear

I agree.

Unless what remains of the corpse does not contain bullet(s), an occurrence highly improbable IMHO, I really don't understand this move.

Best regards

--------------

by Barbarigo » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:46 pm

I completely agree with Lupo and FB.

It will be only time wasted, it's impossible after 60 years to find the real version of the death and there are still many interests to keep the reality covered by silence...

Paolino

----------------

by PAVOLINI » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:54 am

Hi Everybody,

Concerning the death of MUSSOLINI you must ask to the British Intelligence. They know all the truth.

Mussolini should have gone to Spain or Portugal.

The brutal death of Mussolini was worthless and he didn´t deserve it.

The major mistake of Mussolini was the declaration of War.


"Finchè la mia stella brillò, io bastavo per tutti.Ora che si spegne, tutti non basterebbero per me". (Mussolini words in their political testament)

regards

Pavolini

----------------

by Veltro » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:12 am

In the immortal words of Sigmund Freud "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"
At the end of the day, he was shot more than likely out of revenge.

Eddy

-----------------

by scumbag » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:06 am

FB wrote:1) he was not going to Switzerland.

I've always read he was caught boarding a plane for Switzerland. Not to be argumentative, but if he wasn't making a run for it where was he going? and where is your information coming from?

 

[Webmaster]

by FB » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:57 pm

scumbag wrote:

FB wrote:1) he was not going to Switzerland.

I've always read he was caught boarding a plane for Switzerland. Not to be argumentative, but if he wasnt making a run for it where was he going? and where is your information coming from?

Not to be argumentative either, but may I ask you where have you read about the Duce boarding a plane for Switzerland? Because among all the versions of his supposed flee to Switzerland, this one that involves the use of a plane, is really the first time for me

.

Coming to your question: Mussolini and his column were heading to Valtellina, where the idea was to build up a Ridotto (the Ridotto Valtellina), i.e. a stronghold, and make there a last resistance.

He was caught on the road that borders the western bank of the Lake of Como. There is the possibility that a sort of meeting with representative of Allied secret services, probably British, had been set up and that would have taken place in Val d'Intelvi (a valley west of the Lake, that borders with Switzerland) and this would explain why he and part of his entourage adventured up there after leaving Como. But something must have gone wrong and he and his accompaniers returned back towards the Lake and headed north, towards Colico and Valtellina.

Facts that make me discard the "Switzerland Flee" version(s).

1) Pavolini's mistress, the famous actress Doris Durante, was "smuggled", so to say, in Switzerland, sometimes before the end, when her lover made contact with one of the most famous smugglers of the area who, in exchange of a good wealth of money, assured her a safe and quiet trip across the border. I refuse to believe that Pavolini wouldn't say to Mussolini about this possibility if the intention was really the flee to Switzerland

2) The Federale of Como, i.e. the fascist boss in the Area, was a lawyer. He made his living as a civilian also by defending (with good success) smugglers in courts. He, evidently, had really plenty of contacts with that world (and btw I tend to believe that it was him who put in contact Pavolini with the famous smuggler cited in point n° 1. At least I believe that this is a pretty logic possibility). Again: if Mussolini really wanted to escape in Switzerland, wouldn't he at least ask the Federale of Como (one of his most loyal collaborators) a way to do so?

3) Look at a map: if you want to go from Como to Switzerland, what the hell are you doing near Dongo, on the western bank of the Lake? There are literally hundreds of better places to cross the border, especially if you want to do so in an unofficial way, around the town of Como. I live here, if this means something.

4) Paolo (better known as Paolino, or Paulìn in dialect, by his family and friends) Porta, the Federale of Como, was related to my family (my grandparents, I mean). When he left Como he said to his relatives that he was following Mussolini in Valtellina. My wife is from there (Sondrio) and her family elders still remember those days full of fear for the Duce's coming as the area had been, until then, relatively quiet (if you don't consider some not very heavy partisan activity) and did not suffer at all war damages like air bombings and such, that had, on the other hand, so heavily hit other places of the country. Needless to say they were not so happy to find themselves closed in an area that would pretty obviously become a full-fledged war zone, if Mussolini made it till there and transformed it in his personal Alamo. This is to say that rumors of his coming up there were spread among the population back then.

All this is coming from several readings on the subject by Italian authors like Festorazzi (the first that comes to my mind right now, but there's plenty of others. He, btw, is from Como), except what I listed under n° 4, which comes from personal talks in my family (direct and acquired) and as such - even if for me personally they bear a very high degree of credibility - have, I do understand, very little, or better none at all, historical value.

I hope to have been of some help for you.

Best regards

 

[Webmaster]

by scumbag » Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:07 am

Very much help, thank you for elaborating.

from Wikipedia. (which raises plenty of credibility questions of its own)

"On April 27, 1945, in the afternoon, near the village of Dongo (Lake Como), just before the Allied armies reached Milan, as they headed for Chiavenna to board a plane to escape to Switzerland, Mussolini and his mistress Clara Petacci were caught by Italian communist partisans."

So not boarding a plane, on his way to board a plane. My mistake.

I'm assuming this is the common version of the events. I wasn't aware there was any debate regarding Musollini's demise, however, I can see the motivation the Allies would have to create such a story. Mussolini headed off to make a glorious last stand would make him a martyr, whereas stating he was making a break for it would help demonize him in the minds of the public.

------------

by Lupo Solitario » Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:37 am

curiosity: is there a place where a plane could land at Chiavenna? (I mean: something different from a storch; if there would have been a storch there was no reason to go to Chiavenna to take it...)

--------------

by Jim » Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:16 pm

In the end, are they going to bring out his remains?

-----------------

by FB » Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:40 pm

Planes:

- In Tavernola (the neighborhood of Como just before Cernobbio) there was a sort of airstrip, a place where before the war were organized test flight for the population and things like that. I believe that planes bigger than a Storch could land there.

- At Como, on the lake, there was (and there still is) the area dedicated to the landing and take-off of sea-planes, of all dimensions.

- Mussolini was in Milano, where there were plenty (so to say) of airfields and airstrips.

Why then, go to Chiavenna (a very long and dangerous trip in those days) to board a plane that he could board anyway in much more comfortable places?

To answer Lupo: I believe that it is more than possible that in Chiavenna there was an airstrip suitable to planes bigger then Storchs. But the same can be said for Sondrio (there is today a little airstrip just before the town, coming from the lake. This area could very well have been used as an airstrip also 60 years ago, taking into account that planes, back then, did not need a concrete/asphalt strip to take off and land), and generally speaking for all Valtellina: along the Adda river, there are (and hence were) plenty of flat and open fields that could be quite easily used as airstrips.

If a plane must have been, I'd say that the solution of a sea-plane would have been the best: there's the whole lake to use as airfield, not to take into account that in Milano there is the famous Idroscalo i.e. an enormous artificial lake, created just for this reason (it's right on the side of Milano-Linate airport).

Best regards

-------------------

by Lupo Solitario » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:37 pm

we share the same opinion, FB: no reason for a plane at Chiavenna. A lot of best hypotheses. (My question was only that I have no idea about the Milano-Valtellina area)

-----------------

by FB » Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:03 am

Lupo Solitario wrote:we share the same opinion, FB: no reason for a plane at Chiavenna. A lot of best hypothesis. (My question was only that I have no idea about the Milano-Valtellina area)

I see, and I completely agree with you. Visconti's unit comes to mind, for instance.

I would only add that probably Valtellina (i.e. from the top of the Lake of Como on the right, towards Sondrio, Bormio, and Stelvio Pass) is better suited to landing and take-off of planes than Val Chiavenna (i.e. from the top of the Lake of Como on the left, towards Chiavenna, Madesimo, the Spluga pass or towards the Maloja pass), as Val Chiavenna is narrower than Valtellina.

But Chiavenna is much better suited for those who want to flee to Switzerland, as the passes through the Alps that I wrote above, Spluga and Maloja, lead towards Switzerland.

The Stelvio pass route/direction can still lead to Switzerland. A part from Bernina Pass through a couple of secondary routes, but these last are by far much more difficult roads than those reachable through Chiavenna, and above all the main destination of the Stelvio route would, of course, be Alto Adige/Südtirol --> Austria --> Germany.

What I fail to understand is why on earth the possibility of a Ridotto Valtellina, not only in practice but even the thought or perhaps the dream of creating one, is very often disregarded as "bullshit". In a word, for a lot of people, the thing that Mussolini was escaping to Switzerland is a Holy Truth that cannot be questioned.

Best regards

------------

by SUPERMARINA » Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:32 am

The news of a LW Storch would have waited as long as H 20.00 26 April 1945 near the Chiavenna Valley for Mussolini to carry him in Austria was given by the Germans at 17.00 of that day.
Unfortunately, Lt. Birzer, the SS bobtail who escorted (against his will) Mussolini decided his men were too tired to do a last run towards the airstrip that day. Even if the roads were quiet and sure through all 26 April his choice was, at best, a debatable one.

Source: Franco Bandini, Le ultime 95 ore di Mussolini, ed. Mondadori, Verona, 1972, pg. 161.

Bye

EC

-----------

by Kuno » Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:25 am

"His biggest mistake was to declare war" - but else he was a quiet & peaceful chap; or what?

-------------

by FB » Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:21 pm

SUPERMARINA wrote:The news a LW Storch would have waited as long as H 20.00 26 April 1945 near the Chiavenna Valley for Mussolini to carry him in Austria was given by the Germans at 17.00 of that day.
Unfortunatly Lt. Birzer, the SS bobtail who escorted (against his will) Mussolini decided his men were too much tired to do a last run towards the airstrip that day. Even if the roads were quiet and sure throught all 26 April his choice was, at best, a debatable one.

Source: Franco Bandini, Le ultime 95 ore di Mussolini, ed. Mondadori, Verona, 1972, pg. 161.

Bye

EC

Lt Birzer is a character on his own. What he did (and didn't do) back then is really a chapter of what happened. SS men "too tired" is something one would not expect to read, isn't it?. Anyway, I think that this is just another piece in the puzzle of the strange things that happened in those days.

Coming back to the exhumation: the Court of Como has accepted Mussolini's nephew request and has given a "green light". Also, the Public Prosecutors, that were initially against this, gave a favorable opinion to it. So in presence of a relative request supported, in a way, by the opinion of the Public Prosecutor office, the Court arrived at a "yes".

There is one important thing in this matter: a new fact that probably made the prosecutors change their minds: it appears that Mussolini's nephew is - or will very soon be - able to present to the Court a new evidence: a movie (!) that someone was charged to film back then, during the "execution" of the Duce. It seems that a guy, but the piece of news I read did not specify if he was Italian or a foreigner, was ordered to film everything and that later on the Americans get their hands on the tapes and hid them. But the guy had previously made a copy of them and those copies are now traveling from the States to Como.

Please: take this with a lot of caution, as the story as I read it on newspapers, did not make more sense than what I just wrote

Best regards

----------

by Folgore » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:07 am

Do you remember that 1 or 2 years ago a woman, a spiritualist, said that she was talking with Duce's soul and that she was so close to finding Mussolini's gold???

---------------

by scipio africanus » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:57 pm

PAVOLINI wrote:Hi Everybody,

Concerning the death of MUSSOLNI you must ask to the British Intelligence.They know all the truth.

Mussolini should have go to Spain or Portugal.

The brutal death of Mussolini was worthless and he didn´t deserve it.

The major mistake of Mussolini was the declaration of War.


"Finchè la mia stella brillò, io bastavo per tutti.Ora che si spegne,tutti non basterebbero per me". (Mussolini words in their political testament)

regards

Pavolini

Well said!!!