10th reggimento bersaglieri
- Thread starter jwsleser
- Start date
Yes. The regiment was never three btg. motociclisti. AFAIK, before the war the regiment was either 3 btg. biciclisti and 1 cp. motociclisti, or 2 btg. autoporto and 1 btg. motociclisti. Given Madej's information on the 10º rgt. bers. which I think is based on prewar data, I feel that the regiment was biciclisti.
All this doesn't matter as when the regiment was sent to A.S., it was 3 btg. autoporto.
Pista! Jeff
First, thanks for the reply. I'm trying to determine what troops were landed in Libya in 1940 and the 10th Bersaglieri shows only as a regiment with no given organization. A bicyclist battalion was 450 men, correct? Would autoporto number differently?
diciassette2000
Member
It had a special configuration and had been increased by 15% compared to the organic tables both in armaments and in personnel and in vehicles....however, as soon as it arrived, it was remodeled and retained by the command of the 10th Army as an autonomous unit instead of being employed as an organic in large armored units (which then as we all know turned out to be a big mistake). However, when it was employed, it was structured on three tank battalions of similar composition on three companies of bersaglieri and an accompanying weapons company that had replaced the initial machine gun company.
All the best
maurizio
All the best
maurizio
Maurizio
I believe you meant three bersaglieri (or motorized) battalions.
Pista! Jeff
I believe you meant three bersaglieri (or motorized) battalions.
Pista! Jeff
diciassette2000
Member
yes of course......
Maurizio
Maurizio
No luck on translating the TOE.
On 10 June 1940, the day Italy entered World War II the regiment consisted of the following units:
XVI Auto-transported Battalion
XXXIV Auto-transported Battalion
XXXV Auto-transported Battalion
XC Auto-transported Battalion (disbanded on 30 October 1940)
10th Cannons Company, with 47/32 mod. 35 anti-tank guns
Auto Unit
Source: F. dell'Uomo, R. di Rosa (2001). L'Esercito Italiano verso il 2000 - Vol. Secondo - Tomo I. Rome: SME - Ufficio Storico. p. 483.
On December 13, 1940, it is listed as follows:
XVI, XXXIV, XXXV Bersaglieri battalions
1 × battery, 65/17 mod.13 mountain guns
1 × company, 81 mm mortars
This source is linked to a no longer existent web site.
On 10 June 1940, the day Italy entered World War II the regiment consisted of the following units:
- 10th Bersaglieri Regiment
XVI Auto-transported Battalion
XXXIV Auto-transported Battalion
XXXV Auto-transported Battalion
XC Auto-transported Battalion (disbanded on 30 October 1940)
10th Cannons Company, with 47/32 mod. 35 anti-tank guns
Auto Unit
Source: F. dell'Uomo, R. di Rosa (2001). L'Esercito Italiano verso il 2000 - Vol. Secondo - Tomo I. Rome: SME - Ufficio Storico. p. 483.
On December 13, 1940, it is listed as follows:
XVI, XXXIV, XXXV Bersaglieri battalions
1 × battery, 65/17 mod.13 mountain guns
1 × company, 81 mm mortars
This source is linked to a no longer existent web site.
I have the 10th as cyclist at war start, not auto transported yet. It was in Sicilia with HQ in Palermo.
Jun40:XVI,XXXIV,XXXV battaglione bersaglieri ciclisti,10^ compagnia bersaglieri motociclisti or 22° Cp. Bersaglieri Motociclisti? it was the 22a when in Africa, or maybe was only attached
Jun40:XVI,XXXIV,XXXV battaglione bersaglieri ciclisti,10^ compagnia bersaglieri motociclisti or 22° Cp. Bersaglieri Motociclisti? it was the 22a when in Africa, or maybe was only attached
An unsourced claim gives the 10th as 2,000 men. which sounds like two truck trained or mounted infantry battalions and one motorcycle battalion, a common Bersaglieri regiment organization at the time. Unfortunately, the lack of a named source might indicate the author simply assumed the 10th was so organized and so gave the 2,000 man figure. A battle map on this site shows the 10th in reserve at Michili with three trucked battalions (two wheels under each battalion marker). Unfortunately it contradicts Graziani's truck count for December, which, if correct, the 10th had no trucks at all. The Australians mentioned 500 Bersaglieri at the airport battle outside Derna but no mention of them being trucked. Thus, it could be cyclists. A WW1 cyclist battalion was 450 men, or pretty close to the Australian figure.. Don't know about WW2.
No, the 10th was motorized before going to Africa, but at war start was cyclist. Bicycles and sand not a good idea.
I got this from someone when it arrived to Africa: 3 battaglioni con 66 ufficiali, 67 sottufficiali, 1660 truppa con 141 autocarri 626 più 9 pesanti). But i don't believe the truck component, it is missing other smaller types.
I got this from someone when it arrived to Africa: 3 battaglioni con 66 ufficiali, 67 sottufficiali, 1660 truppa con 141 autocarri 626 più 9 pesanti). But i don't believe the truck component, it is missing other smaller types.
Yes. It was motorized before arriving in N.A. I found this info in:
OPERATIONS IN NORTH AFRICA
VOL. I-SIDI EL BARRANI
(June 1940-February 1941)
MARIO MONTANARI
10th Bersaglieri mentions:
a motorized regiment of three battalions coming from the Army
of the Po, possibly reinforced with some Solothurn antitank rifle armed units
page 144
It is not very clear the thoughts of Graziani. He had asked for a motorized regiment in order to form with the tanks in Cyrenaica one armored division. The 10th Bersaglieri was in course the motorized preparation by without Solothurn rifle Company but with one 47mm /32 guns.
Page 171
the 10" Bersaglieres with one company of 47/32 and one battery of 20 millimeter
Page 290
XVI Battalion was leading the Beda Fomm column well ahead of the XXXIV and XXXV battalions which suggests a motorcycle battalion as does its casualties. One source states of 12 Bersaglieri regiments, all had one motorcycle battalion.
Your 1660 troops is in line with what I read in N.A. I agree 141 trucks of model 626 is probably not correct.
I think the mystery is solved.
OPERATIONS IN NORTH AFRICA
VOL. I-SIDI EL BARRANI
(June 1940-February 1941)
MARIO MONTANARI
10th Bersaglieri mentions:
a motorized regiment of three battalions coming from the Army
of the Po, possibly reinforced with some Solothurn antitank rifle armed units
page 144
It is not very clear the thoughts of Graziani. He had asked for a motorized regiment in order to form with the tanks in Cyrenaica one armored division. The 10th Bersaglieri was in course the motorized preparation by without Solothurn rifle Company but with one 47mm /32 guns.
Page 171
the 10" Bersaglieres with one company of 47/32 and one battery of 20 millimeter
Page 290
XVI Battalion was leading the Beda Fomm column well ahead of the XXXIV and XXXV battalions which suggests a motorcycle battalion as does its casualties. One source states of 12 Bersaglieri regiments, all had one motorcycle battalion.
Your 1660 troops is in line with what I read in N.A. I agree 141 trucks of model 626 is probably not correct.
I think the mystery is solved.
So many issues with your statements.
Not one source gives the 10º rgt. bers. a btg. motocicilisti. None.
All the sources state the regiment had three btg. autoporto. All.
One must remember that a motorized bersaglieri btg. only had two companies in each battalion.
I don't understand what you attempting to prove here. Nothing you have present provides any clue that that the regiment was anything other than three btg. autoporto. What fact keeps you arguing for a btg. motocicilisti? I have yet to read anything you provided that supports that position.
Pista! Jeff
There has never been a mystery. The regiment had three btg. autoporto.I think the mystery is solved.
All the rgt. bicicilsti had three btg. biciclisti and one cp. motociclisti, not a btg. motociclisti. Better check that source again.
Not one source gives the 10º rgt. bers. a btg. motocicilisti. None.
All the sources state the regiment had three btg. autoporto. All.
I was unable to find a truck count presented by Graziani that indicated that the 10º lacked trucks. Source?
None of the 10º rgt. bersaglieri was at Derna. The only bersaglieri unit present was the 60ª cp. bersaglieri motociclisti which was a divisional motorcycle company and not part of the regiment (and it certainly did not have 500 men). See Infantrymen of the Air pp.89–91 for an extensive discussion of the Italian forces at Derna.
It is likely correct. With a troop capacity of 20 men, the 141 trucks could transport 2,820 men. The Aug 41 FdG gives a bersaglieri rgt of two btg. autoporto and 1 motociclisti a total of 140 autocarri leggeri. That regiment has significantly greater number of heavy weapons, but no medium or heavy trucks. The Fiat 626 was a medium truck.
One must remember that a motorized bersaglieri btg. only had two companies in each battalion.
No, it means that one battalion was used as an advance guard. Standard operating procedure.
I don't understand what you attempting to prove here. Nothing you have present provides any clue that that the regiment was anything other than three btg. autoporto. What fact keeps you arguing for a btg. motocicilisti? I have yet to read anything you provided that supports that position.
Pista! Jeff
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