• As some of you know, the old forum database was deleted by the previous administrator. I am attempting to paste any retrievable discussions back into this forum using the internet archive. It won't look pretty - but at least we can preserve some valuable information. Feel free to add to the discussions as these old posts are restored.

Anti Tank Performance

jwsleser

Member
Staff member
Posted 28 August 2003 - 03:08 PM by Neil Wakefield

Data on the armour penetration capabilities of Italian artillery is hard to come by. I've found another site (http://miniatures.de...nt/shellsI.html) which provides armour penetration details for quite a few weapons at 100m against vertical armour. However I've been warned about the accuracy of the information on this site. For example it says the Italians had a HEAT round ('Effeto Pronto') for the 65/17 Infantry Gun which could penetrate 120mm of vertical armour at 100m. Since a short German 75mm gun only penetrates 100mm at the same distance I'm suspicious.
Any data on the armour penetration capabilities of Italian anti tank guns, tank guns, anti aircraft guns, field and medium artillery or other web sites/books where I could find the data would be appreciated

Posted 30 August 2003 - 07:59 AM by Attilio

You can find a lot of data on the good book of Cappellano:
Le artiglierie del Regio Esercito nella II guerra mondiale. Parma 1998, Albertelli ed.

It's very difficult find data on the AT capability of EP (effetto pronto)round. Pignato in a book about the medium italian tanks reported 70 mm for the EP round of 75/18 gun mounted on the self propelled gun. There are no sure data on the AT capability of 65/17 gun.

Best regards
Attilio

Posted 30 August 2003 - 04:31 PM by daveh

The data below is copied from
World War Two Armour Penetration Statistics by John Salt (formatted by Valeriy Potapov)

"Anti-Tank Weapons" Peter Chamberlain and Terry Gander, MacDonald and Jane's, 1974.
It 37/45 400 yds 30º 38
It 47/32 M35 550 yds 0º 43

"The World War II Databook", John Ellis, Aurum, 1993, page 304. Ranges in yards, Ellis, 1993
Weapon Ammo 250 500 750 1000 1500 2000

It 20mm 29 24
It 37mm 32
It 47mm 48 (400) 38 32

"The Unknown Alamein", Charles Messenger, Ian Allan, 1982
range penetration
It 20mm Breda 500 24
It 47/32 1000 32

"Panzer Bait: With the 3rd Royal Tank Regiment 1940-1944", William Moore, Leo Cooper, 1991

Weapon Ammunition Range Penetration
It 47mm in M13, M14 400 48

Pages 186-187 of an unknown small-format (8 × 5½ inches) hardback
Weapon Ammunition Range Penetratio
It 47/32 Model 37 AP 1000 26
It 90/53 AA gun AP 1000 101

"Tank Armament in World War Two", Paul Woodman, in: Airfix Magazine, Vol. 3 No. 5, Alan W. Hall (publications) Ltd, August 1991, page 174.
Weapon Ammo 500 1000 1500 2000 metres
It 47mm APC 55 43

The data for the Cannone contracarro da 37/45 is widely available as this is the German Pak 35/36

Posted 24 January 2004 - 01:56 AM JeffreyF

Does anyone have information on the performance of the 47/40 cannon used on the M15/42? Also wasn't this used on the semovente based on the L6 chassis at a later point? Was it ever used as a stand alone at gun?

Thanks for answering the 20 question bit. ;)

Posted 25 January 2004 - 07:12 AM by Michi

As my file doesn't work anymore, here are my informations about the difference of the 47mm L/32 and 47mm/L40 are as followed:

47mm L/32
Produced by Ansaldo.

Carro Armato Medio M13/40
Carro Armato Medio M14/41
Carro Armato Semovente Leggero L6/40 da 47/32
Auto Blinda AB 43 (not sure if 47mm L/32 or 47mm L/40)

Initial speed: 630 m/sec (or 610 m/sec)
Penetration: 40mm @ 650m at 30°; 32mm @ 1000m (or 26mm @ 1000m)
Max. effective range: 1.600 metres
Rate of fire: 12-14 rounds per minute
Weight of perforating shell: 1,5 Kg.

47mm L/40
Produced by Ansaldo.

Carro Armato Medio M15/42
Carro Armato Semovente Leggero L6/40 da 47/40 (very late production models) (not prooved yet)
Auto Blinda AB 43 (not sure if 47mm L/32 or 47mm L/40)

Initial speed: 900 m/sec (or 750 m/sec) (or 829m/sec)
Penetration: 57mm @ 500m; 43mm @ 1000m
Other datas as the 47/32 gun

MfG Michi

Posted 13 May 2014 - 03:48 PM by nmao

Hello.

Just to add someting to this old thread
/>

It seems the first 200 EP 75mm rounds were available in November 1941.

http://it.cultura.st...o-a-bir-el-gobi

Post by Attilio60
Nel già citato articolo sulla battaglia di Bir El Gobi pubblicato
sull'ultimo numero di Storia Militare l'autore afferma che alla
artiglieria italiana vennero consegnate in tale occasione 200 granate Effetto Pronto di
calibro 75 mm.
La fonte di questa informazione e' il diario storico del comando divisione
dell'Ariete, che alla data del 12 novembre recita:
"Vengono assegnati n.200 proiettili da 75/27 ad effetto E.P."

Post by Attilio60
Nelle mie fonti la distribuzione di tali munizioni in Africa Settentrionale
avvenne solo dopo i primi mesi del 1942.
Le tue fonti (quali sono?) probabilmente non sbagliano di molto: mentre
in novembre fu consegnato un numero non elavato (200) di proiettili a
un'unita' d'elite come l'Ariete, probabilmente solo nell'anno successivo
(con l'arrivo dei nuovi convogli) la diffusione avvenne in modo piu'
capillare e in quantita' considerevoli.

Ciao
Antonio
Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:33 PM by Dili

I have this for EP rounds. Not necessarily Africa.

65/17 : EP round available in Spring 42
75/27( and 75/18 for Semovente) : late 41
100/17 :second half 42, EPS in May43
105/28: the round was called mod.43 so i suppose it arrived in 1943.
47/32: i have not the data handy since it was a useless technology due to small caliber projectile.

Posted 15 May 2014 - 05:23 AM by david

Do we know in what sort of numbers each type was available in Africa and when (apart from the 200 listed above).

Then some comparative penetration figures would also be useful.

Thanks.
 

jwsleser

Member
Staff member
Grazie!
 
Top