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Bersagliieri Autoportato Battaglione

jwsleser

Member
Staff member
Posted 12 July 2011 - 03:19 PM by david

Guys.

How many men in a Bersaglieri Autoportato battaglione AS40?

And did it change at all when AS42 came in?

I understand that it was somewhere between 400 & 600.

Posted 12 July 2011 - 03:57 PM by Dili

Bersa Auto 1940
plt trasmissioni, plt rimpiazzi,colonna leggera rifornimenti+ 3 compagnie fanteria (1 plt comando, 1 plt munizioni 3 plotoni fanteria) + 1 compagnia mitraglieri motociclisti(plt comando plt munizioni e 3 plt mitraglieri motociclisti ciascuno con 3 mitragliatrici pesanti).

No men numbers

Data i have for 1941 unclear if Africa

Bersaglieri 1941 auto(II Bn of Rgt)
compagnia comando era aumentata fino a 127 soldati con 7 ufficiali e 19 sottufficiali.
3 compagnie con numero di soldati inferiore (126) niente biciclette, un'auto, 14 camion leggeri e 3 motocicli. 18 FM per compagnie
compagnia mitraglieri con 4 uff. 10 sottuff. 136 uomini e 41 moto

1942
La riorganizzazione del '42 diede a bersaglieri e fanteria organizzazioni simili; le compagnie vennero divise in :plotone comando (con 3 autocarri pesanti);plotone bersaglieri su 3 squadre plotone mitraglieri su 3 squadre ciscuna con 1 mitragliatrice;plotone AT da 20mm su 3 squadre, ciascuna con 1 pezzo AT (Solothurn ) plotone AT 47mm su 3 squadre ciascuna con 1 pezzo. Le compagnie così riorganizzate avevano 5 uff., 13 sott. 111 uomini, 4 autieri, 3 camion pesanti, 6 pistole mitragliatrici, 3 mitragliatrici;

Posted 12 July 2011 - 04:15 PM by david

So I make that 513 men in 1941, which in theory would be that same as 1940 if AS40. (Which I know that you do NOT claim).
And no increase in numbers likely under AS42.

Thank you.

Posted 13 July 2011 - 07:51 AM by Dili

1941 i think it is 127+126x3+136*=641

*could be 4+10+136

Posted 13 July 2011 - 02:43 PM by Montbrun

As of the AS42 Organization, the Rifle Companies of the Infantry, Motorized Infantry, and Bersaglieri units in North Africa had the same organization. This applies to the AS42 organization only. The Battalion would have from 2 to 4 Companies:

Battaglione Bersaglieri
--Comando – 1 x Lt. Colonel or Major, 1 x Adjutant Captain or Lieutenant, 1 x Chemical Officer, 1 x Medical Officer
--Plotone Comando – 1 x Junior Officer
----Squadra Comando – 1 x NCO, 3 x Senior EM, 3 x EM
----Squadra Collegamenti – 1 x NCO
------Radio Operators – 2 x Senior EM, 4 x EM
------Telephone Operators – 3 x Senior EM, 7 x EM
------Observers and Signals Technicians – 6 x EM
------Couriers – 4 x EM, 4 x Motorcycles
----Squadra Servizi – 2 x NCO, 1 x Senior EM Armorer, 4 x Drivers, 1 x Mechanic, 3 x Light Trucks, 23 x EM (Batmen, Cooks, Porters)
--Compagnia Bersaglieri
----Squadra Comando – 1 x Captain, 1 x NCO, 9 x EM
------Transport – 4 x Cars, 3 x Heavy Trucks, 7 x EM Drivers
----Plotone Fucilieri
------Comando – 1 x Jumior Officer, 1 x EM
------Squadra Fucilieri – 1 x NCO, 2 x Senior EM, 8 x EM, 2 x LMG
------Squadra Fucilieri – 1 x NCO, 2 x Senior EM, 8 x EM, 2 x LMG
------Squadra Fucilieri – 1 x NCO, 2 x Senior EM, 8 x EM, 2 x LMG
----Plotone Mitraglieri
------Comando – 1 x Jumior Officer, 1 x EM
------Squadra Mitraglieri – 1 x NCO, 1 x Senior EM, 5 x EM, 1 x HMG
------Squadra Mitraglieri – 1 x NCO, 1 x Senior EM, 5 x EM, 1 x HMG
------Squadra Mitraglieri – 1 x NCO, 1 x Senior EM, 5 x EM, 1 x HMG
----Plotone c.c. da 20 o 25
------Comando – 1 x Jumior Officer, 2 x EM
------Squadra Controcarro – 1 x NCO, 6 x EM, 1 x 20mm Solothurn ATR or 25mm ATG (Captured French)
------Squadra Controcarro – 1 x NCO, 6 x EM, 1 x 20mm Solothurn ATR or 25mm ATG (Captured French)
------Squadra Controcarro – 1 x NCO, 6 x EM, 1 x 20mm Solothurn ATR or 25mm ATG (Captured French)
----Plotone c.c da 47/32
------Comando – 1 x Jumior Officer, 2 x EM
------Squadra c.c da 47/32 – 1 x NCO, 10 x EM, 1 x 47/32 ATG
------Squadra c.c da 47/32 – 1 x NCO, 10 x EM, 1 x 47/32 ATG
------Squadra c.c da 47/32 – 1 x NCO, 10 x EM, 1 x 47/32 ATG

The three Heavy Trucks in the Company HQ were used to tow the antitank guns, and haul the antitank rifles and HMGs.

SOURCE:
NARA Records Group 242, Microcopy T821, Roll 21, File IT111
“Formazioni Provvisorie di Guerra – Comandi, Reparti e Servizi in A.S. – Fascicolo C – Fanteria,” Stato Maggiore R. Esercito, Ufficio Ordinamento

Posted 13 July 2011 - 10:43 PM by david

Dili.

I have never seen the "127+126x3+136" structure of which you speak in practice for Bersgalieri.

I have only ever seen 127+126x3. ie 3x Soldati Compagnia + Compagnia Comando.

Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:28 AM by Dili

In above text i posted it says 127 for comand company, 126 for each of squad companies and 136 for MG company.

Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:50 AM by david

Dili,

I understand that perfectly.

What I was saying was that in practice I have never seen a Battaglione Bersaglieri A/P with the five Compagnia you list personnel for. Only Compagnia Comando + 3 Compagnia Soldati.

Hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

David.

Posted 14 July 2011 - 02:43 PM by Dili

David.

Okay so in your data MG company doesn't exist or is inside comando company as platoons or distributed by battalions?

I have that only in Bersaglieri Motociclist 1940: cp comando(plt trasmiss., plt rimpiazzi, colonna leggera rifornimenti), subunits:3 cp su motocicli (plt comando, plt munizioni, plt radio, plt mitragliatrici e 3 plt fanteria.)

Posted Yesterday, 12:27 PM by madmike

Plotone trasmissioni, in an Italian Infantry Company, and 'colonna leggera rifornimenti'?

I don't think so. Where does you find those informations?

Posted Yesterday, 01:39 PM by Montbrun

I think he means a Bersaglieri Motorcycle Battalion.

Posted Yesterday, 07:24 PM by Dili

Correct Montbrun. Btw thanks for your detailed info above.

Posted Yesterday, 10:44 PM by Dili

Okay so in your data MG company doesn't exist or is inside comando company as platoons or distributed by battalions?

As far as I knew, "did not exist".
 

FrancoFB

New Member
Afaik there is not a bersaglieri autoportato btln AS40, simply because there was not beraglieri btln in Libya
the 10° Reggimento Bersaglieri was sent the 14th December '1940 and came the 15th, was on XVI, XXXIV, XXXV all btln autoportati
IF they had the same organization of the btln autoportati in the division this is on two coy with three rifle plt and one mg plt, with 9 lmg and 3 mg each coy.
 

David Wormell

New Member
Afaik there is not a bersaglieri autoportato btln AS40, simply because there was not beraglieri btln in Libya
the 10° Reggimento Bersaglieri was sent the 14th December '1940 and came the 15th, was on XVI, XXXIV, XXXV all btln autoportati
IF they had the same organization of the btln autoportati in the division this is on two coy with three rifle plt and one mg plt, with 9 lmg and 3 mg each coy.
Hi Franco.

I thought that they arrived in September and that XXXV & XVI were motorcyclisti?

kind regards,
David.
 

jwsleser

Member
Staff member
David

No. The 10º regg. bers. was all btg. autoportati. It is the only 1940 reggimento bersaglieri that was. It didn't arrive until December. It was rush to the front as the UK were exploiting Compass.

Pista! Jeff
 

FrancoFB

New Member
Afaik, and i think sure at 99%, they arrived at December with Motonave Marco Polo, now i don't remember where, but i've read that the 10° were all autoportati, this is first time that i read they had motorcyclist btln and 2 of them
 
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