Gruppo Mobile E

[Kustosz2137]

Hi! I have two questions about Gruppo mobile E from CI Battaglione Carri 'R35' on which I can't find reliable answers anywhere on the internet.
The first one is: how many tanks belonged to mobile groups (companies) equipped with R35s? Majority of sources states that they were 16, while some others says about 12. Personally I think that 16 tanks company is more belivable, as this number can be easily devided to 3 platoons (5 vechicles per one) and company commander's tank (which surely existed, beacause there are photos of it). Anyways, I just want to make sure about it.

Second one is: What colour were the company markings on GM E tanks and how they were chosen for each gruppo? On most of the illustrations of Italian R35s form Gruppo E they are wearing markings of 2nd company (blue rectangle), while some others show them with 1st (red) or 3rd (yellow) marks too. (3rd company marking is the least belivable, as there is no logical solution why they should wear it)
Second part of this question is about system of choosing these markings, beacause colour of the rectangle in GM E depends on it.
There are two options of classification of mobile groups as companies:
1. By letters in their names (A, B, C, D, E, F)
2. By number of the company before being transformed into mobile groups (1 - 6)
In this case it's important to know, that companies weren't placed in mobile groups in order:
Gruppo Mobile A - 4th company, CII battalion
Gruppo Mobile B - 6th company, CII battalion
Gruppo Mobile C - 5th company, CII battalion
Gruppo Mobile D - 3rd company, CI battalion
Gruppo mobile E - 1st company, CI battalion
Gruppo Mobile F - 2nd company, CI battalion
(There were also gropus G and H, but Gruppo G contained only one platoon of R35s devided from 2nd company (Gruppo F), while group H was equipped only with Fiat 3000 tanks)
So, if markings of the group depended on it's letter, the Gruppo E should wear blue rectangles (B and E were equivalents of 2nd companies in their own battalions), but if they depended on company number then it should wear red ones (company with the smallest number in it's own battalion; it's equivalent in CII battalion should be 4th one)

It might look like a minor detail, but as a scale modeler it's important for me to recreate original vechicle as closely as possible, so I want to know which of these colors should I use. I've tried to colour original photos of these tanks in colorizing app, but it didn't helped too much, as these are too inaccurate in their interpretations of colours.

Thanks for all kinds of help!

I'm also attaching photo of Gruppo Mobile E commander's tank that I'm trying to recreate in scale. (Gela, Sicily, 1943)

 

[diciassette2000]

​

To me it looks like this:
All R-35 tanks used in Sicily by the R.E. they belonged to the 131st regiment (rgt.) Chariots. This rgt. it was established in Siena on July 27, 1941, initially assigned to the "Centauro" Armored Division and deployed in Friuli. Subsequently in January 1942, the department, made autonomous, was transferred to Sicily in anticipation of a possible Allied landing on the island.
the regimental’s 102 tanks were assigned as follows:
- nucleo comando di rgt.: 2 carri
- nucleo comando 101º (CI) battaglione (btg.):2 tanks
- 1ª compagnia (cp.) / 101º (CI) btg.: 16 tanks
- 2ª cp. / 101º (CI) btg.: 16 tanks
- 3ª cp. / 101º (CI) btg.: 16 tanks
- nucleo comando 102º (CII) btg.:2 tanks
- 4ª cp. / 102º (CII) btg.: 16 tanks
- 5.a cp. / 102º (CII) btg: 16 tanks
- 6ª cp. / 102º (CII) btg.: 16 tanks
Upon arrival in Sicily, the 131st rgt. chariots ceased to exist as an organic unit and its elements were divided among the various mobile groups in the phase of constitution, all the mobile groups used in Sicily except the mobile group "H" had in force the R-35 wagons. The 101st btg was assigned to the 16th Army Corps in charge of the defense of the eastern part of Sicily. which was divided into mobile groups as follows:
- 1ª cp.,/ gruppo mobile “E” at Niscemi;
- 2ª cp. (minus 1º plotone), / gruppo mobile “F” at Rosolini
- 1.o platoon /2ª cp. /gruppo mobile “G” at Comiso
- 3ª cp. and HQ 101º btg., / gruppo mobile “D” at Misterbianco
The 12nd Army Corps in charge of defending the western part of Sicily was assigned the 102nd btg. which was divided into mobile groups as follows:
- 4ª cp., / gruppo mobile “A” at Paceco
- 5ª cp. and Hq 102º btg.,/ gruppo mobile “C” at Portella Misilbesi
- 6ª cp., / gruppo mobile “B” at Santa Ninfa
see also attachment
all the best
Maurizio

 

[Dan in Vermont]

Hello everyone: thanks for this info on markings. Can someone tell me the paint & camouflage pattern used on the R-35 from Gruppo Mobile E. Some sites show all green while others show desert yellow base with green & red-brown patterns on top. The Semovente 90/53 that fought later that day in the same area clearly have a yellow base with green camo painted on top. Thanks!​

To me it looks like this:
All R-35 tanks used in Sicily by the R.E. they belonged to the 131st regiment (rgt.) Chariots. This rgt. it was established in Siena on July 27, 1941, initially assigned to the "Centauro" Armored Division and deployed in Friuli. Subsequently in January 1942, the department, made autonomous, was transferred to Sicily in anticipation of a possible Allied landing on the island.
the regimental’s 102 tanks were assigned as follows:
- nucleo comando di rgt.: 2 carri
- nucleo comando 101º (CI) battaglione (btg.):2 tanks
- 1ª compagnia (cp.) / 101º (CI) btg.: 16 tanks
- 2ª cp. / 101º (CI) btg.: 16 tanks
- 3ª cp. / 101º (CI) btg.: 16 tanks
- nucleo comando 102º (CII) btg.:2 tanks
- 4ª cp. / 102º (CII) btg.: 16 tanks
- 5.a cp. / 102º (CII) btg: 16 tanks
- 6ª cp. / 102º (CII) btg.: 16 tanks
Upon arrival in Sicily, the 131st rgt. chariots ceased to exist as an organic unit and its elements were divided among the various mobile groups in the phase of constitution, all the mobile groups used in Sicily except the mobile group "H" had in force the R-35 wagons. The 101st btg was assigned to the 16th Army Corps in charge of the defense of the eastern part of Sicily. which was divided into mobile groups as follows:
- 1ª cp.,/ gruppo mobile “E” at Niscemi;
- 2ª cp. (minus 1º plotone), / gruppo mobile “F” at Rosolini
- 1.o platoon /2ª cp. /gruppo mobile “G” at Comiso
- 3ª cp. and HQ 101º btg., / gruppo mobile “D” at Misterbianco
The 12nd Army Corps in charge of defending the western part of Sicily was assigned the 102nd btg. which was divided into mobile groups as follows:
- 4ª cp., / gruppo mobile “A” at Paceco
- 5ª cp. and Hq 102º btg.,/ gruppo mobile “C” at Portella Misilbesi
- 6ª cp., / gruppo mobile “B” at Santa Ninfa
see also attachment
all the best
Maurizio

 

[DrG]

Dan, I am unable to answer your question, but I guess you can find its answer in this book (it belongs to a series of books covering every photographic detail of the Sicilian campaign): https://books.google.com/books/abou...Sicilia_Sici.html?id=USGlzgEACAAJ&redir_esc=y

 

[jwsleser]

You are a bad man DrG. I looked for that book and saw they have published several series of books, some of which have titles that are of great interest to me.

Now to check my wallet.

 

[Kustosz2137]

As far as I can tell they used original French patterns (they were different, depending on production series) with some white accents added (usually it was white commander cupola and stripe at the rear hull plate but not always). At least one was also painted in (propably) Panzergrau by Germans before giving it to Italians.