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Guerrino Sambo, my grandfather

Friuli

New Member
Hello,

I'm William, I live in Udine near the Italian border with Slovenia. Finally after so many years of research, I've found the military records of my grandfather, he was a soldier of the Genio Minatori or "miner" engineer. He was stationed in Slovenian border at the start of the invasion of Yugoslavia. I'd like to find more about him or better, about his unit and its deeds, which anyway can say a lot about my grandfather too. What did he do after the 8th of September 43? Seems he fought again.

If anyone can help me, I'll be very grateful.

I attach his military records.
 

jwsleser

Administrator
Staff member
Saluto Wiliam

Welcome to the Comando Supremo.

If your attached his foglio matricolare, it didn't appear with the post. Is it a .jpg file or some other file format? If you need assistance, you can PM me.

Pista! Jeff
 

jwsleser

Administrator
Staff member
William

Thanks! I was able to download the file.

Your grandfather's unit will be a challenge to research. Engineers units are not well documented in military history, especially a small unit like a specialized company. Most likely a visit to the archives will be necessary to determine many details. I have not been able to discover much on his unit.

The 2º reggimento minatori was formed in 1932 from the cableway battalions from three other regiments. While it is unclear, it is likely that his company specialized in aerial cableways (this is a guess). In 1940, the regiment mobilized the V, VI, VII, VIII, X, e CV btg. Unfortunately my source doesn't tell us which companies are in which battalions. One would hope that the companies were consecutively numbered, but that is not the case. As your nonno's unit was a specialized engineer unit, it is unlikely it was assigned to a division or lower. It could be attached for a specific mission, then returned to the higher headquarter control.

In L'campagna di Grecia (1980), I have found the IX btg. minatori with the 16ª, 31ª, and 32º cp. The IX belongs to the 1º regg. minatori. I also found the 22ª cp., but I don't know to which battalion it belongs. No sign of the 17ª cp. There are many reparti minori, reparti vari, servizi vari, btg. misto genio, etc. listed without providing more details.

Your nonno's foglio indicates that he was Class of 1915. He receive a one year deferment and didn't perform his military service until 1937. He was released from service in 1938. He was recalled to service in June 1940 with the 17º cp. He didn't go to Yugoslavia until the campaign started (6 April 41), which indicates the 17ª cp. was likely with the 2ª Armata. As a specialized unit, the 17ª cp. was likely assigned to either a corps or to the army. I don't read Italian handwriting very well, but it appears he got sick in August 41 and was transferred to the hospital in Udine. He was in the hospital until March 42 when he returned to the depot of the 2º regg. minatori. He remained without assignment until the armistice in Sep 1943 when his regiment was disbanded. Although he was demobilized, he was considered in service between Sept 43-April 1945 for pension and any other benefit calculations (this was normal). There is no indication that he was with a unit/saw active service during that time. As his home was in Zoppola Udine, he likely returned home in 1943.

There are a few more sources I can check, but I don't expect to find much. I hope another member has sources that specialize in engineer units.

If other members find errors in what in wrote, please correct me.

Pista! Jeff
 
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Friuli

New Member
There are a few more sources I can check, but I don't expect to find much. I hope another member has sources that specialize in engineer units.

If other members find errors in what in wrote, please correct me.


Thank you for all these informations.

I've read it got sick and was transferred to the hospital in Udine, the military hospital still does exist and it's located in via Armando Diaz. Actually the military archive from the distretto are located right there.

I've found too that engineer units are quite, difficult let's say, to research. It's a pity. Do you think I might be more successful if I try writing an email to the Ufficio Storico dell'Esercito (like Center of Military History)?

Do you have any bibliography about? I'd like to buy some books in the future.

The other nonno "fought" with the Alpini but had a REALLY interesting part in the war, and he even wrote a small journal. I'll share with you his military record: https://gofile.io/d/IJtsNk . I might post some more pictures and documents if you'd like, I just have to scan them.

I've always been involved in reenactment, did some 17th century, did even some napoleonic and I was in Waterloo for the Bicentenarie. But I'd like to do ww2 with some real family background. I might do the Alpini since I do even have his Cappello, but engineer unit are less known and so somewhat more fascinating.
 

jwsleser

Administrator
Staff member
Thank you for posting the foglio of your other nonno. Another interesting read. I can't quite understand where he was in September 1943. His campaign service appears to say Francia, but I don't believe that is correct. Is it Frontiera? The btg. alp. Cividale was in Italy with the d.alp. Julia. so frontiera makes better sense, but I can't quite read the handwriting.

What is the val btg. on the 4th page? 'al magazzino del battaglione Cividale tale nel battaglione Val ???' (1 June 1940)

I found this little bit on the genio minatori in Storia della Dottrina e degli Ordinamento vol II, tomo I (italics in the original):

Nell'organizzazione dell'attacco
I minatori presidiano le interruzioni e distruzioni già predisposte e, quando necessario e conveniente, ne predispongono altre a tergo delle truppe attaccanti ed eseguono lavori in roccia per le artiglieria pesanti e ricoveri per le riserve. p.661

Nell'organizzazione e condotta della difesa
I minatori provvedono alla predisposizione di interruzioni stradali e ferroviarie, di distruzione e, eventualmente, di inondazioni, sia sul terreno antistante alle posizioni sia nell'interno, sia nella zona retrostante. Esi concorrono altresì, sulle posizioni arretrate, alla esecuzione dei lavori di forticazione e stradali in terreno roccioso. p.664

Nel ripiegamento
...I minatori attuano le interruzioni e le distruzioni predisposte o di circostanza;... p.666

I've found too that engineer units are quite, difficult let's say, to research. It's a pity. Do you think I might be more successful if I try writing an email to the Ufficio Storico dell'Esercito (like Center of Military History)?
I was search to see if the USSME published a book in the engineers. I will keep looking.

I might post some more pictures and documents if you'd like, I just have to scan them.
If you wish. I would like to read them.

Pista! Jeff
 

Friuli

New Member
According to his journal and his foglio, in september 1939 he was drafted once again to serve with the Alpini, I've recontructed his order of battle:
Gruppo d’Armate “Est” – Scacchiere orientale
2a Armata
11o Corpo d’Armata
Raggruppamento Alpini “Alto Isonzo”
1° Gruppo Alpini “Valle”
8° reggimento Alpini
Battaglione Val Natisone
216a Compagnia

In February 1940 he did the so-called "campo invernal", or basically a winter training march, he went to monte Nero, better known as Krn in Slovenian, they were guided by a Roman officer who, according to my grandfather, knew nothing about mountaineering, after a while, one Alpino who enjoyed hiking in the Julian Alps leaded them down to Krn village, they were saved by a Guardia di Finanza and a Mountain Artillery detachment that were sent in a search and rescue mission. Most of them ended up being frozen in hypothermia and hospitalized first in San Pietro al Natisone (near Cividale del Friuli) and then to Udine. My grandfather was frozen in both feet and suffered until his last days of "cold feet".

1 September 1939: Udine, Braida Bassa
15 September 1939: marching to Tarcento

6 November 1939: on leave

10 February 1940: Winter training camp
11 February 1940: Tarcento, Zaga, Plezzo, Tolmino
16 February 1940: monte Nero, lago Nero, snow storm
16 February 1940: San Pietro al Natisone
17 February 1940: Ospedale militare di Udine

In June he was drafted again, but had the right for military-service exemption because most of his brothers were servining (there were ten of them and all came back from the war: Ethiopia, Corsica, Sardegna, Libia, Jugoslavia). However he did the Summer training cap, and marched from Tarcento to Sonzia, Tarcento is just a few km from Udine where I live, then they marched north to the Torre valley, then through Uccea to the Soca/Isonzo valley near Plezzo, modern day Bovec, and from there to Sonzia, at the base of the Vrsic pass (it's the highest Alpine pass in Slovenia).

I'll try to write some more about his late war experience. He was recalled the 25th of August 1943 in Cividale and sent to southern France by train from Udine, he reached Antibes the first of September. I've reconstructed the order of battle:
1o Corpo d’Armata
223a Divisone Costiera
166° reggimento alpini costiero
Battaglione alpini monte Arvenis
725a Compagnia​

So he was in one of those low-quality "coastal" divisions. He said that instead of being enlisted in the army, he was enlisted in the "Armata dell'Amore" "the Army of Lovers". As the armistice day arrived, it was decided, too lately, that they should immediately retreat to Italy, but while he was packing his backpack the Germans arrived and all the Alpine were taken prisoners. How do you translate "rastrellare"? Then they were taken to Cannes and Grasse to disarms bombs and mines. In October, November or December, my granddad's journal is quite vague here, they were taken first to Koln, then Normandy, lastly to Saint-Brieuc to Brittany. In January 1944 taken to Lanquetot to build Rommel's asparagus and bunkers, he wrote they were placing even fake airplanes.

Then June 1944 arrived, he was still in Normandy, but in the meanwhile he had an armband with "deutsche Heer" written on it, I think probably he refused to fight for the RSI (until his last day I remember he spoked ill of Mussolini), instead choose to collaborate with the Germans. He wasn't armed at all, but could freely roam. As the Allies begin their bombardament, the 6th of June some of the German units retreat from Lisieux, the code-word to identify friend or foe was "Don". The seven of June, 150 Alpini troops rebelled, they didn't wanted to march to Caen, a German officer tooks two Alpini as interpreters, then.. he shoots them. Their names were: Lovisa and Degan. Degan is a tipical surname from Carnia (the mountainous part of northern Friuli, my paterna grandmother was a Degano). Probably this two were Friulians from Carnia where there are many german-speaking communities and generally speaking many went to Germany searching better living conditions (they are called cramars in Friulian). Anyway, the Alpini obviously decided to move to Caen. July came and in August the Allies liberate Paris.

Last days of August 1944: The Germans retreat from Rouen and want to reach the other side of the Seine river. In the meanwhile the Allies were bombing, during one of those bombing my grandfather together with some of his friends (Vittorio Papinutti and Arrigo Beinat, which I had the opportunity to meet while I was still a child) escape to the woods. During the night a German patrol came, but they were lucky. The commander was "Maresciallo Feitbelle", I think my grandfather mistook the rank Feldwebel for a name so "Feitbelle", anyway the Alpini made some friends and this platoon commander was one of them. The three friends decided to move along the Germans but during the march another bombardement came and they decided to scatter in the countryside. The Allies knew there were many Italians in Normandy, my grandfather said and wrote that during the night some Italian-written fliers were "raining", it was basically written that the italians should not oppose resistance to them. There were still hiding, that an English-speaking patrol came but couldn't find them, during the night the three firiends decide to move about 500 meters away from the English-speaking soldiers. I think they were Canadians. The English-speaking find them and start suppressing them, but the three friends manage somehow to escape once again. They reached a farm, they ate and drank something, after three days they reached again the Germans, my grandfather decided to gain some informations and decided to approach them, once again he found one of his German friends, he called him "Giacinto", after a while he escaped once more in the woods. Two days the three friends were taken prisoners by some Canadians, I think they were from the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion. Taken back to Caen, then to the beaches, England and lastly yo Edimburgh. My grandfather immediately said he was against Mussolini, so he was mostly free, he even wore the British Battledress with the patch Italy on his left shoulder. I think he was asked if he wanted to fight with the Esercito Cobelligerante Italiano but I think he refused and preferred to remain in the UK helping the Allies with their struggle against Germany and the Axis. I have is POW ID dated 30 July 1945, he was prisoner of war number 126738 in Eden Vale Camp, Westbury, Wiltshire. At first it was a site occupied by housing POW camp, listed as Italian working camp / labour battalion to at least 1945 by the International Red Cross, then a German Working Camp. By the way, there is a telefon number written on the ID, it's Westbury 235, probably the local Police station. He was basically free in England and worked in the brewery.

Finally the was has ended, the 15 March 1946 he was taken on board of the SS Queen of Bermuda from Liverpool to Naples, the 25 March 1946 finally he came back home in Udine but the next May he was hospitalized again, the 20 August 1946 he was on leave, and finally the 15 November 1946 his war has ended.​

My grandfather has never been a Fascist and never has enjoyed war, many of his friends has died because one single man had too many personal ambitions, he always taught me to be respectful of the others and to never use any kind of violence against the others. He died the 4 April 2014 at the age of 98. Oh, and obviously he handed down to me the love for the Alpini corp, whenever he had the opportunity he enjoyed to unite with the Veci at the many "Adunata Nazionale Alpini" that were and still are organized yearly.

Unfortunatly I never knew the other nonno, Guerrino died the 11 September 1995 and I was born just a little more than a year before.
 
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jwsleser

Administrator
Staff member
What a great story. Nonno Cripriano lived a very adventurous life.

The USSME has been publishing a set of books on the Engineers, Storia dell'Arma del Genio. The latest volume is vol VII tomo I which covers 1935-1940. I don't believe the next volume covering the 2GM has been published.

You can find a brief history of the engineers, L'Arma del Genio, HERE

How do you translate "rastrellare"?
I would need to read the word in the sentence, but it normally means to rake [up] or mop [up]. I assume the word was used to mean the Germans raked up the Italian soldiers after the armistice.

Pista! Jeff

 

1089maul

Member
Good evening all,
This is the type of thread that I love! The personal story of real people who were involved in the conflict.
Friuli, do you have any pictures of your nonno that you can put on this thread, preferably in uniform?
Regards,
Bob
 

Friuli

New Member
What a great story. Nonno Cripriano lived a very adventurous life.

The USSME has been publishing a set of books on the Engineers, Storia dell'Arma del Genio. The latest volume is vol VII tomo I which covers 1935-1940. I don't believe the next volume covering the 2GM has been published.

You can find a brief history of the engineers, L'Arma del Genio, HERE
Thank you for you help! Then I'll just have to wait some more for the next publication.
Exactly! I meant that the Germans raked up the italians soldiers, didn't know you could use rake even with this meaning.
Friuli, do you have any pictures of your nonno that you can put on this thread, preferably in uniform?
Sure! I upload some.

I'll get some various documents (fogli di licenza, libretto di tiro, prigionia etc etc; and some pictures with both of them). My grandfather was quite fond of his military service so he kept most of his documents, his uniform (but no the Cappello) was unfortunatly burnt in England to keep low the risk of spreading lice.



















 
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jwsleser

Administrator
Staff member
Friuli

Excellent pictures. It is very good that you have this history of your family. I see you don't have nonno Cripriano Libretto Personale. That booklet could have answered many questions.

I see you ask similar questions on Milistory.net. L'occupazione italiana della Slovenia doesn't provide much info.

I found this information while searching for the two battalions. The locations might give you a clue.

On 15.6.1941 the two battalions were located at:
6° Btg. minatori - Stari trg di Loz
8° Bgt. minatori - Rakek
Source:
Here is information on the organization on the btg. minatori. Unfortunately no company information is provided.
Annuario ufficiale delle forze armate del Regno d'Italia. 1, Regio esercito

Pista! Jeff
 

1089maul

Member
Friuli,
Many thanks for sharing such wonderful photographs! Even nicer to see that you have his medal.
Regards from the UK,
Bob
 
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