Is this 60 year old book still the most comprehensive in English on Italian aircraft in the Fascist era?

[Sid Guttridge]

Is Italian Civil and Military Aircraft 1930-1945 by Jonathan Thompson still the most comprehensive in English on Italian aircraft in the Fascist era and WWII?

It is noticeable that the otherwise pretty comprehensive Putnam series on the aircraft of WWII never published one on the Italians. This title seems to be equivalent to a Putnam volume in comprehensiveness and quality.

Is there a better Italian-language book that we should be aware of and perhaps deserves translation and publication in English?

Italian Civil and Military Aircraft 1930-1945 by Jonathan Thompson HC | eBay

<p>This hardcover book titled "Italian Civil and Military Aircraft, 1930-1945" by Jonathan W. Thompson is a fascinating read for aviation enthusiasts and history buffs alike. The book provides an in-depth account of the Italian aircraft industry during the 1940s, showcasing both civil and...

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Cheers,

Sid

 

[jwsleser]

I hope some of our experts on the R.A. will address this question. My library is not generously stocked with books on the R.A.

Pista! Jeff

 

[DrG]

Thompson's book is surprisingly well illustrated, but I don't know how much precise are the information it provides. I have made some checks and I have found no factual mistakes, anyway.
Books like this aren't published anymore, because they tend to be replaced by Wikipedia or internet sites, therefore in my opinion the only Italian book that can be compared to Thompson's one is the old "Guida agli aeroplani d'Italia" written by Giorgio Apostolo and published by Mondadori in 1981 (!).
Those really interested in Italian airplanes should instead read the booklets, in Italian and English language, published by La Bancarella Aeronautica https://www.bancaero.it/edizioni-la-bancarella-aeronautica and the old series of booklets "Dimensione Cielo" published by Bizzarri in the Seventies. Then, of course, there are several books delving into the details of a single airplane or of a type of planes; in my opinion "Frecce, saette, folgori e veltri. Storia critica dei Caccia italiani della seconda guerra mondiale" by Giulio Cesare Valdonio is an excellent analysis of Italian fighters in WW2, but it should be taken as a complement to the books detailing a single plane and not as a substitute for them.

 

[1089maul]

Evening all.
I have the Thompson book. At the time of its publication it was the go to book as there was very little on the Regia Aeronautica in the English Language. Thankfully, this has been remedied with several publications not only on the Regia Aeronautica but also on individual types of aircraft. The Bancarella series are excellent as are the Dimensione Cielo as mentioned by Dr G. The more well known aircraft such as the MC202 and SM79 have had detailed books published in the English language. Osprey to mention just one publisher have published excellent books not only on aircraft but also warships.
Regards to all,
Bob

 

[jwsleser]

Is there a single volume source that is comprehensive? Or must one collect multiple volumes to gain a solid understanding of the R.A. during the war?

Pista! Jeff

 

[DrG]

Is there a single volume source that is comprehensive? Or must one collect multiple volumes to gain a solid understanding of the R.A. during the war?

Pista! Jeff

Honestly I think that one should collect several books about a single airplane, ora a single factory, etc.

Anyway, I have just discovered (it has been reviewed on the July 2023 issue of "Storia Militare") this new book which looks like a competitor of Thompson's one: Mauro Ferri, "Aerei italiani 1925-1945", IBN, 2023. I haven't read anything by this author and I have not seen a preview nor the table of contents of this book.

 

[jwsleser]

DrG

Honestly I think that one should collect several books about a single airplane, ora a single factory, etc.

If the R.A. is a primary research topic, then I most certainly agree. For the casual reader or one looking for a solid source for a secondary interest, is there a better book than Italian Civil and Military Aircraft 1930-1945 for R.A. aircraft data?

RE: Aerei Italiani 1925-1945. 452 pages, over 1K photo. It does look interesting.

Piusta! Jeff

 

[Dili]

To a what point you do want know Italian aircraft? That is the main question. If want to know performance more than just stated max speed you need to have aircraft type dedicated book (Ali d'Italia , Profile series ), aircraft manual helps with weights and the RA fliers about aircraft capabilities.

No generic book is good. They fail mostly because they never state for what range is the bombload/fuel equation.

 

[DrG]

If the R.A. is a primary research topic, then I most certainly agree. For the casual reader or one looking for a solid source for a secondary interest, is there a better book than Italian Civil and Military Aircraft 1930-1945 for R.A. aircraft data?

RE: Aerei Italiani 1925-1945. 452 pages, over 1K photo. It does look interesting.

I guess that the casual reader can refer to Wikipedia. Books like Thompson's one had a huge utility until a decade or two ago, but today I think that internet has more than replaced their scope. I do hope that Mauro Ferri's new books provides new and updated information, especially with regards to some myths that have apparently turned into truths but without any real proof. For example, Valdonio (quite biased in favour of Macchi and against Fiat, to be honest) has written something really new and finally has challenged some information, such as the true performance of the SAI-Ambrosini 403 Dardo and the alleged and unproven interest by Japan and Germany about it, which Thompson and scores of writers before and after him have given for granted.

 

[DrG]

To a what point you do want know Italian aircraft? That is the main question. If want to know performance more than just stated max speed you need to have aircraft type dedicated book (Ali d'Italia , Profile series ), aircraft manual helps with weights and the RA fliers about aircraft capabilities.

No generic book is good. They fail mostly because they never state for what range is the bombload/fuel equation.

Have you got Valdonio's book? It is very interesting, also with regards to technical matters. By the way, Valdonio is an aeronatical engineer and has worked at Aermacchi for decades.

 

[Dili]

Nopes, i don't have Valdonio book, but i have aircraft manuals, Dimensione Cielo and some RA performance data datasheets.

One example: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org>Articles & Misc.>Caratteristiche_velivoli_italiani

Do the Valdonio book have any data about manoeuvrability and power at various altitudes of Italian fighters?

 

[Dili]

I guess that the casual reader can refer to Wikipedia. Books like Thompson's one had a huge utility until a decade or two ago, but today I think that internet has more than replaced their scope.

If a person wants a database of names and basic characteristics all Italian aircraft of that period it is a valid book. For anything more deep - like understanding what was the best Italian bomber it is not valid- nothing replaces weights: fuel, oil, armament, devices etc. and performance with said weights.

 

[1089maul]

Having just reread the posts on this subject, it would appear that the question relates to the various Regia Aeronautica aircraft rather than the history of the RA or its operations during WW2. To that end, Thompson’s book covers all aircraft used by the RA including lesser known ones. However, I think that more recent books go into the aircraft in much more detail with more pictures. Bob

 

[DrG]

Nopes, i don't have Valdonio book, but i have aircraft manuals, Dimensione Cielo and some RA performance data datasheets.

One example: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org>Articles & Misc.>Caratteristiche_velivoli_italiani

Do the Valdonio book have any data about manoeuvrability and power at various altitudes of Italian fighters?

In Valdonio's book there are several graphs comparing the speed and climb rate of the Italian fighters and their enemies.
If ever you will buy it, please let me know, because I have the first edition and would like to know if there are improvements in the second one.

 

[Dili]

In Valdonio's book there are several graphs comparing the speed and climb rate of the Italian fighters and their enemies.
If ever you will buy it, please let me know, because I have the first edition and would like to know if there are improvements in the second one.

You might like Ali Antiche 109

I segreti di un documento inedito​

Michele M. Gaetani Page 11

 

[DrG]

Thanks Dili, I have a copy of this article and I know very well its author.

 

[DrG]

You might like Ali Antiche 109

I segreti di un documento inedito​

Michele M. Gaetani Page 11

By the way, have you got both the parts of this article? There is also part 2 about Italian bombers, published on Ali Antiche 118.

 

[Dili]

Thanks. I don't have that one. I'll send you a msg.

 

[Sid Guttridge]

Thanks to all contributors. I see that Italian Civil and Military Aircraft 1930-1945 by Jonathan Thompson is out of copyright in another nine years. Perhaps somebody will have the initiative to reissue it then, unless one of its more recent Italian competitors is translated first.

The internet is not really a substitute for books, because its content (where not made up) is almost entirely reliant on books for its information and is not similarly peer-reviewed before publication.

Cheers,

Sid.

 

[Pips]

I have the book. I find it quite informative and well rounded. Combine it with Chris Dunnings "Courage Alone" and both'll provide a very good depiction of Italian activities during the period '40 to '43.