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Italian First Army in Tunisia since 22nd April.

Indragnir

New Member
Hi my fellow forumites, greetings from Spain.

I'm researching (mainly Order of Battle) the end in Africa (Operation Vulcan): The final assault on the Tunisian bridgehead.

The german part is "easy" since in the summer of 1943 they issued a document detailing every unit lost in the event. I know Giovanni Messe wrote a book about that time period (La mia armata in Tunisia) likely the best source for italians. However I cannot understand italian well enough to read a whole book without making mistakes (spanish and italian people can understand common lenguage from each other quite well but literature texts is quite different, specialy when you don't want to make mistakes). The book is available but not digitalized so I cannot use a online translator so no point to me buying that book.

So I ask for help, could you post here OoB, strength detailed about italian units since 22nd April? (Army, Corps, Divisions, Regiment, Btls, whatever level and detail you know)
(Or even if you know where to find or purchased a digitalized version of the books I could copy-paste into a online translator.)

Bests Regards!
César
 
Unfortunately, the Tunisia campaign is one of the campaigns where the OOBs changed day by day especially in the last phase (for the Italians 2nd battle of Enfidaville). Among other things, it is very difficult to monitor the entire OOB because it is mixed and fragmented between Italian and German units. Therefore you should try to focus on a specific period (for example April 22-April 25, April 25-April 30, May 1st-May 5, etc.) to make the OOB suitable ... It seems to me much less problematic as the rest you have already said the part concerning the allies, even if in this specific case they also undergo many changes ...
All the best
Maurizio
 
Hi
Unfortunately it is in Italian because it derives from Italian EMS documents of the time. If you have translation problems, tell me something that I will translate them for you ....
A question .... just out of curiosity why are you interested in a historical period and a moment of war almost unknown to most ... historians generally turn to the Russian campaign or to the usual landing in Normandy .... it's admirable .....

OOB 19/4/1943

1.a Armata
20.o corpo d'armata con:

-90.a D.f. leggera su:
--155.o Grenadiere (battaglioni I.o e II.o)
--200.o Panzergrenadiere (battaglioni I.o e II.o)
--190.o artiglieria (3 cannoni da 100mm e 6 obici da 105mm)
--900.o battaglione pionieri
--90.o battaglione da ricognizione (distaccato dalla divisione)
--57.o battaglione bersaglieri dell’8.o reggimento bersaglieri
--2.o Battaglione del 1.o reggimento Giovani Fascisti

-136.a Divisione Fanteria “ Giovani Fascisti “ su:
--1.o Battaglione del 1.o reggimento Giovani Fascisti
--11.o battaglione bersaglieri (8.o reggimento bersaglieri)
--9.o battaglione autonomo
--III/47.o Panzergrenadiere
--I e II/361.o Panzergrenadiere
--136.o artiglieria con i gruppi:
---17.o (autocannoni da 100/17 su 4 pezzi)
---16.o (autocannoni da 75/27 su 8 pezzi)
---15.o (autocannoni da 65/17 su 17 pezzi e una sezione antiaerea da 20mm)
---batteria antiaerea (6 pezzi da 20 mm antiaerei)
--25.o battaglione misto genio
--204.o gruppo da 75/27 su 5 pezzi
--206.o gruppo da 75/27 su 7 pezzi

-101.a Divisione Fanteria “ Trieste” su:
--III/65.o battaglione fanteria
--1.o, 2.o e 3.o Battaglione del 66.o Reggimento fanteria (il 2.o battaglione era stato ricostituito utilizzando i resti del 4.o battaglione granatieri mentre il 3.o battaglione era stato riformato con gli elementi rimasti della divisione Folgore)
--21.o artiglieria con i gruppi I.o e II.o da 100/17 su 6 pezzi ciascuno, III.o e IV.o da 75/27 su 6 pezzi ciascuno e V.o da 75/50 su 6 pezzi.
--82.o battaglione complementi
--52.o battaglione misto genio
--10.o battaglione Camicie Nere “M”
--Battaglione Luftwaffenjáger

-Truppe di corpo d'armata:
--16.o raggruppamento artiglieria di corpo d'armata con i gruppi:
---15.o da 105/28 su 6 pezzi
---202.o da 87,6 di preda bellica inglese su 8 pezzi
--24.o battaglione misto genio
--102.o reggimento artiglieria contraerea (tedesco) su:
---I/6.o Abteilung con 1.a, 2.a e 3.a batteria su 4 pezzi da 88mm ciascuna e 4.a e 5.a batteria da 20mm su 12 pezzi ciascuna di cui 3 quadruple
---I/46.o Abteilung con 1.a e 2.a batteria su 4 pezzi da 88mm ciascuna, 3.a batteria su 3 pezzi da 88mm e 4.a e 5.a batteria da 20mm su 12 pezzi ciascuna
---I/33.o Abteilung con 1.a e 2.a su 4 pezzi da 88mm ciascuna e 4.a e 5.a batteria da 20mm su 8/12 pezzi ciascuna

21.o corpo d'armata con:
-16.a Divisione Fanteria “ Pistoia” su:
--II/35.o battaglione fanteria
--II e III/36.o battaglione fanteria
--340.o battaglione mitraglieri
--1.o gruppo “Novara”
--51.o battaglione misto genio
--due gruppi di artiglieria con 10 pezzi da 65/17 e 5 da 77/28

-164.a D.f. leggera su:
--II/115.o Panzergrenadiere
--I/382.o R.to Grenadiere
--I e II/433.o R.to Panzergrenadiere
--II/125.o (Divisione La Spezia)
--164.o Abteilung da ricognizione
--3 batterie di cannoni tedeschi (14 pezzi)

-80.a Divisione Fanteria “La Spezia” su:
--III/125.o
--I/126.o (ex 84.o battaglione complementi)
--II/126.o (formato con i resti del Raggruppamento Sahariano)
--III/126.o
--106.o battaglione controcarro
--252.o battaglione mortai
--281.o battaglione mitraglieri GAF
--I/47.o Panzergrenadiere
--80.o artiglieria con i gruppi 43.o da 75/50 su 5 pezzi, 213.o da 100/17 su 2 pezzi, 208.o da 77/28 su 6 pezzi e III.o e IV.o gruppo da 75/27 della divisione Pistoia su 8 pezzi ciascuno.
--80.o battaglione misto genio

-Truppe di corpo d'armata:
--24.o raggruppamento artiglieria di corpo d'armata con il II.o gruppo da 105/28 su 4 pezzi e 343.o da 105/28 su 4 pezzi
--27.o battaglione misto genio
--135.o reggimento artiglieria contraereo (tedesco) su:
---I/43.o Abteilung con 2.a e 3.a batteria su 3 pezzi da 88mm ciascuna e 4.a e 5.a batteria da 20mm su 8/12 pezzi ciascuna
---I/53.o Abteilung con 1.a e 2.a batteria su 4 pezzi da 88mm ciascuna e 4.a e 5.a batteria da 20mm su 8/12 pezzi ciascuna

Riserva d’Armata:
15.a Panzerdivision su:
-I/115.o Reggimento Panzergrenadiere
-8.o Reggimento Panzer su 15 carri
-33.o Reggimento artiglieria (3 cannoni da 100mm, 8 obici da 105mm)
-33.o Battaglione controcarro
-33.o battaglione pionieri
-33.o battaglione da ricognizione
-Raggruppamento Corazzato “Piscicelli”

Difesa delle retrovie su:
-Raggruppamento esplorante corazzato “Lodi”
-III.o Gruppo Corazzato “Nizza”
-III.o Gruppo Corazzato “Monferrato”
-Battaglione Sahariano (3 compagnie)
-3.o gruppo corazzato esplorante tedesco
-30.o raggruppamento contraereo costiero

Truppe d'armata:
-8.o raggruppamento artiglieria d’armata con:
--2 pezzi da 149/28, 6 pezzi da 149/40, 2 pezzi da 149/35 e 7 pezzi da 149/12
-2.o raggruppamento artiglieria contraerea con i gruppi:
--90.o da 75/46 su 9 pezzi
--91.o da 75/46 su 6 pezzi
--14.o da 75/46 su 6 pezzi

-3.o raggruppamento artiglieria contraerea con i gruppi:
--72.o da 75/46 su 15 pezzi
--100 da 76/40 su 8 pezzi
--101.o da 77/28 su 10 pezzi

-34.o raggruppamento artiglieria costiera (senza pezzi)
-280.o raggruppamento artiglieria G.a.f. (senza pezzi)
-40.o Raggruppamento artiglieria (senza pezzi)
-7.o raggruppamento genio d’Armata
-5.o reggimento Bersaglieri (battaglioni 14.o e 21.o)
-Reggimento “Duca d’Aosta” (battaglioni paracadutisti e “Loreto”)
-I/35.o battaglione di fanteria “Pistoia”
-70.o battaglione motomitraglieri
-125.o reggimento Panzergranatieri

All the best
Maurizio
 
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Indragnir

New Member
Maurizio,

That's impressive! That's exactly what I was looking for!
I like to research less known battles (for example Anzio up to Operation Fischfang, Yom Kippur War) and now Tunisia. Also I like to debunk myths, like the weak italian army. Maybe it had poor performance the first years 1940-1942 up to 2nd El Alamein (bad Officers, inferior equipment, low supply) but at Tunisia the italians were second to none despite all their shortcomings in supply and material. I'm pretty sure you know British 8th Army cancelled their attack against the italians after suffering horrible loses (see Takrouna and the following attempts to dislodge the italians).

I've some doubts.
Whats the meaning of: (I know battaglione means Btl)
battaglione autonomo
battaglione complementi
battaglione mitraglieri GAF (Mitraglieri means machine gun but GAF?)
3.o gruppo corazzato esplorante tedesco (that means German Panzer Recon btl?)
The rest I understand without even translator (used to italian due lots of books on North Afrika I read)

Now some questions:
1.o gruppo “Novara” (Those are the Lancieri equipped with Autoblinda 40/41?)
Raggruppamento Corazzato “Piscicelli” (any further info/composition?)
Raggruppamento esplorante corazzato “Lodi” (do you know composition?)
III.o Gruppo Corazzato “Nizza” (Armored Cars? do you know composition?)
III.o Gruppo Corazzato “Monferrato” (Armored Cars? do you know composition)
30.o raggruppamento contraereo costiero (That's Coastal Anti-Air artillery, any idea of their composition?)
Reggimento “Duca d’Aosta” (battaglioni paracadutisti e “Loreto”) I presume they were just foot infantry?
125.o reggimento Panzergranatieri (That's the german one, right?)

Obviously whatever detail you can give me about strength, AT guns, separate mortar btls (like La Spezia 252.o battaglione mortai or 106.o battaglione controcarro). I understand that's a very obscure information, I don't expect anything just trying.

Also do you know what italians units were with 5th Panzer Army on the same date? I know about the 5th and 10th Bersa. Rgts plus Grado btl from San Marco's.

Bests
César
 
I will try to be as clear as possible even if many times already the research on the Royal Army is not because of errors in the same maps of the time and for the somewhat approximate character of the Italian reports in general.
However, let's start with the meanings
Autonomous battalion.
It was an undivided or regimented battalion. That is, in practice he did not have a unit above it as a command but he responded directly to the Army Corps or Army Command.
Battalion complements
It was a battalion of recruits or replacements coming directly from the Motherland. The Germans used the Marsch Btl which were the German copy of the Italian complement battalions in Tunisia.
GAF
It was an acronym for Border Guard. The Border Guard was a Special Corps created within the Royal Army to defend patriotic borders. A cross between the Alpine troops and the army in North Africa and Tunisia was deployed in practice as a line infantry. It also had a component of machine gunners who merged warfare during units created ad hoc for the increasingly pressing needs of men online.
3rd German armored explorer group
It was the Aufk Abteilung of the 15. Pz division which now in Tunisia fought as a detached and autonomous unit.
Now the direct questions
- Gruppo Squadroni Lancieri di Novara
In Tunisia the Squadron Group had arrived without armored personnel carriers and L6 / 40 tanks which represented their armament in El Alamein. Unfortunately in Tunisia he received no replacements and actually fought as a truck-mounted machine gun unit.
-Raggruppamento Corazzato Piscicelli
The Grouping was nothing more than an "ad hoc" group formed with all the surviving Italian wagons and the self-propelled still available. It took the name of Piscicelli from the name of the commander Oderisio Piscicelli Taeggi.
-Raggruppamento esplorante corazzato Lodi
The unit had also been partially destroyed during previous fighting. At the time (April 23, 1943) it was composed as follows:
- a regiment command squadron
- an armored squadron
- a motorcycle squadron
- a mixed squadron on 12 armored cars and a motorcyclist platoon
- a self-propelled platoon of 47/32
- a truck-mounted squadron on 147 Cavalleggeri
- half squadron c.a. on 4 pieces of 20 m / m
- a reduced command squadron but in conditions of being able to operate fully.
-3.o Gruppo Corazzato Monferrato now GECO Monferrato
Also arrived in Tunisia far below the initial staff, it was reconstituted as GeCo Monferrato (Monferrato Exploring Group) and equipped with various materials such as Morris trucks of war prey, some Ab 41 and Italian trucks.
-30.o raggruppamento costiero antiaereo
It was a group that arrived in Tunisia with the precise task of framing all the former French anti-aircraft batteries found on the spot. It was therefore only a command that campaign during framed a multitude of former French batteries of various calibers ranging from 25mm to 75mm. At the moment, however, I don't know what composition it had.
- Reggimento Duca D’Aosta
Tunisia was the grave of the units created for requirement C3 (invasion of Malta) which never became operational. For that need, various special units of raiders and paratroopers were created and trained, including this regiment that was part of the air force. The regiment was then hastily sent to Tunisia to make up for the shortage of line units and was lost to them. In fact, it fought as a ground unit despite having training from raiders and paratroopers.
-125.o reggimento Pzgranatieri
It was a German armored infantry unit even though there was little left at this point in the armored campaign.
The 252nd mortar battalion was a normal 81mm mortar battalion created by combining the remains of various units while the 106th counter tank battalion was a unit that used ex-Dutch Bohler 47/32 material sold by the Germans to the Italians as war prey. The cannons were loaded onto normal trucks and had to be unloaded to fire. However, keep in mind that at this point in the campaign ALL the units of the axis were in fact a shadow of themselves and even the divisions had been recomposed at best using everything a bit as you will also notice from the descriptions of the battle order.
I am also attaching an extract of the ONLY Italian units employed at the same time by the 5th German army although there may be repetitions due to errors in the weather reports that often overlapped given the very excited moments ... ...

5.a Armata Corazzata (tedesca)
Truppe d’Armata
-504.o Gruppo da 90/53 antiaereo del 3.o Reggimento contraerei
-49.o Gruppo da 75/46 antiaereo del 3.o Reggimento contraerei
-58.o Gruppo cannoni da 105/32 del 29.o Raggruppamento di Corpo d’Armata
-15.o battaglione contraereo
-Settore Biserta
--10.o Reggimento Bersaglieri con:
---Comando
---34.o battaglione bersaglieri su tre compagnie
---35.o battaglione bersaglieri su tre compagnie
---63.o battaglione bersaglieri controcarro su:
----Comando
----compagnia mitraglieri
----compagnia mortai da 81mm
----compagnia mitragliere da 20mm
----compagnia motociclisti (distaccata alla 50.a Brigata Speciale)
--Reggimento S.Marco con:
---Comando
---Battaglione (fanteria da Marina) Bafile
---Battaglione “Loreto” della Regia Aereonautica (parte)
---1.o battaglione paracadutisti della Regia Aereonautica
--41.o Raggruppamento artiglieria costiera (parte)
-Settore Tunisi
--Divisione “Superga”
--unità attaccate:
---101.o battaglione controcarro Boehler
---136.o battaglione controcarro
---2.a compagnia del 133.o battaglione controcarri
---battaglione mitraglieri Versè (compagnie mitraglieri 1001,1002,1003)
---3.a batteria del 35.o gruppo da 75/46 del 3.o R.to contraerei
---570.a coorte MVSN (Tunisina)
---Battaglione d’Assalto T (Volontari tunisini)
---22.o battaglione artieri del genio (solo 1.a e 2.a compagnia)
---2.o battaglione lanciafiamme
-Settore Raggruppamento Benigni
--1.o battaglione del 91.o Reggimento Fanteria
--5.a compagnia del 92.o Reggimento fanteria
--5.a comp. motociclisti del 5.o reggimento Bersaglieri
--70.o battaglione Bersaglieri Motomitraglieri
--24.o Battaglione Bersaglieri
--Battaglione Grado del reggimento S.Marco (Regia Marina)
--57.o e 59.o gruppo cannoni da 105/32 del 29.o Raggruppamento di Corpo d’Armata
--40.o gruppo da 75/46 del 3.o Reggimento Contraerei
--65.o gruppo obici da 100/17 (motorizzato)
--69.a batteria antiaerea da 20mm
--101.o battaglione misto genio
-Settore “50.a Brigata Speciale”
--50.a Brigata Speciale con:
---Comando
---672.a sezione CCRR
---5.o battaglione CCNN
---70.o battaglione bersaglieri motomitraglieri

---10.a compagnia bersaglieri motociclisti
---1.a compagnia del 10.o R.to Bersaglieri
---1.o squadrone del 6.o Gruppo Squadroni appiedato “Aosta”
---1.a e 2.a compagnia del 330.o battaglione mitraglieri GAF
---Raggruppamento d’Assalto “T”
---60.o battaglione mitraglieri
---Reco-Lodi (parte)
---557.o Gruppo Semoventi da 75/18 (meno una batteria)
---58.o Gruppo da 75/46 da posizione
---69.a batteria da 75/27 (da posizione)
---35.o Gruppo da 75/46 del 3.o Reggimento Contraerei
---71.o e 78.o Gruppi da 75/46 da posizione
---71.a batteria contraerea da 20mm
---12.a compagnia del 17.o battaglione carri armati del 31.o reggimento carristi (7 carri)
---compagnia autoblindo “Nizza”
---233.a compagnia mista del genio
--41.o Raggruppamento artiglieria costiera (parte)


If you still need something tell me .... the idea of Yom Kippur is beautiful because actually having information on the Israeli army of the time is not easy ........
All the best
Maurizio
 

Indragnir

New Member
Awesome again Maurizio!

I've a couple of questions:
570.a coorte MVSN (Tunisina) Coorte meaning Cohort? is like a company, a btl?
672.a sezione CCRR (Red Shirts? I know CCNN is black shirts...) I know sezione is section.

Just if you have in any case number of guns/men/relevant equippment (and you've not posted them yet) I would be interested. If I take into account the artillery guns seems italian strength could be around 50% of authorized strength, what do you think?

Regarding Yom Kippur... I dig even in hebrew military forums, russian-speaker israeli citizens in the east... thanks to a human translator and google. Now Israel is declassifying quite war material and new books are surfacing (like Sakal and Asher) As you can understand it's a labour of years.
Tunisia is my latest interest, started about 3 years ago. I plan also researching Sicily invasion eventualy because I think (and have some evidences) the italian side has been neglected but I'm pretty sure you're aware of this.

Bests
César
 
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First the questions:
Coorte MVSN (Milizia Volontaria Sicurezza Nazionale)(Tunisina)
It was a black shirt department. The cohort diction goes back to the fact that Mussolini believed in the restoration of the Roman Empire and his militia instead of being divided into Battalions, companies and platoons was divided into Legions and cohorts like the ancient Roman army. Therefore in practice the cohort was a black shirt company which in this case had taken the honorary name of Tunisian because it was formed in Tunisia with Italian personnel from LIbia and Tunisia integrated with local volunteers.
sezione CCRR
CCRR (Regi Carabinieri). It was a carabinieri section, that is, military police who in this case fought as line infantry.
Unfortunately as regards the forces in the field and the numbers of the armaments of the units at this point in the campaign are unfortunately almost impossible to find. I have also been looking for archives and publications for years but also in the NARA Rolls that I have seen there is not much. However I will still look in my files and keep you informed if I find anything.
As for Sicily, you will have noticed that we have another project on Husky in progress, even though that is a difficult topic to reconstruct not so much regarding the early stages of the landing but regarding the continuation of the campaign. As for the Yom Kippur, I would be very pleased to exchange some information also on that theme even if this is not the right forum ....... anyway .....
All the best
Maurizio
 

Indragnir

New Member
Thanks again.

Yes I noticed about Husky. I agree with you.
Regarding Yom Kippur: of course, we can use PM to exchange e-mails.

After a second read I've some additional questions about that units
Any info on those?
-III.o Gruppo Corazzato “Nizza”
--41.o Raggruppamento artiglieria costiera (parte) (from San Marco Rgt.)
---136.o battaglione controcarro (from Superga)
---2.a compagnia del 133.o battaglione controcarri (from Superga)
---2.o battaglione lanciafiamme (I presume flamethrowers?)
--1.o squadrone del 6.o Gruppo Squadroni appiedato “Aosta”
--10.o battaglione Camicie Nere “M” (was motorized or foot?)
-Battaglione Sahariano (3 compagnie) (Foot?)

Is the ---Raggruppamento d’Assalto “T” the same unit of ---Battaglione d’Assalto T (Volontari tunisini)?

Mitraglieri units had also mortar or were pure MG units?

I think I'm done asking. I've read your information 3 times and no more questions (I think)

Will send you my e-mail (PM)
 
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3.o Armored group Nizza
In January 1943 the III Group of Nizza joined the troops of Tripolitania and Sahara, to protect the departments falling back towards Tunisia. From 7 to 13 April the Group fought against the avant-gardes of the British 6th Armored Division, protecting the folding of other forces through the Chotts to Enfidaville. On April 22 the survivors of the Nizza Group joined the R.E.Co. Lodi, following a higher order that brought together all the cavalry fighting units in Tunisia in Lodi where the last phase of the war opened.
-41.o Raggruppamento artiglieria costiera
It was only a group command that was to coordinate the former French war battery in Tunisia. He used various types of batteries of caliber from 75mm to 198 all of the coastal type.
-136.o battaglione controcarro
On 3 47/32 self-propelled companies it was not part of the Superga division which instead had the 1st anti-tank battalion as its anti-tank divisional unit on two 47/32 self-propelled companies and one of 20mm Soluthurn rifles. However, he almost always fought in command of the division, creating this error.
-2.a compagnia del 133.o battaglione semoventi
It was the only battalion company that fought in Tunisia. The rest of the battalion remained in Sicily and then fought them in July 1943. Always on self-propelled from 47/32
-2.o battaglione lanciafiamme (flamethrower battalion)
It was a battalion of the chemical specialty of the Royal Army. On two infantry flamethrower companies.
-1.o Squadrone del 6.o Gruppo Squadroni appiedato Aosta
Reduce from the North African campaign was a machine gun unit belonging to the cavalry of the Royal Army. It was truck-mounted.
-10.o battaglione CCNN
Truck-mounted but in fact now without means.
-Saharian battalion
It was part of the famous Mannerini grouping. It was on Saharan trucks on AB41 hull.

The assault grouping T was formed by a command and initially by the assault battalion T. Later, a second and a third T battalion were added and then returned to being contracted in one battalion due to losses.

The machine gun battalions had only heavy machine guns
 

Indragnir

New Member
It's amazing the research you did.

I truly thank you. Surprised me 136.0 battaglione controcarro was self-propelled.

After reading you a fourth time...

63.o Bersaglieri from 10.o Bersaglieri Rgt (with apparently no AT guns?----compagnia mitragliere da 20mm could be Solothurm rifles or Anti Air guns?)

---22.o battaglione artieri del genio (from Superga) what means artieri?

The following units were employed as Provisional Infantry since they had no guns?
-34.o raggruppamento artiglieria costiera (senza pezzi)
-280.o raggruppamento artiglieria G.a.f. (senza pezzi)
-40.o Raggruppamento artiglieria (senza pezzi)

Any info un number of guns/vehicles?
5.a Armata Corazzata (tedesca)
Truppe d’Armata

-504.o Gruppo da 90/53 antiaereo del 3.o Reggimento contraerei
-49.o Gruppo da 75/46 antiaereo del 3.o Reggimento contraerei
-58.o Gruppo cannoni da 105/32 del 29.o Raggruppamento di Corpo d’Armata
-15.o battaglione contraereo
-Settore Raggruppamento Benigni
--57.o e 59.o gruppo cannoni da 105/32 del 29.o Raggruppamento di Corpo d’Armata
--40.o gruppo da 75/46 del 3.o Reggimento Contraerei
--65.o gruppo obici da 100/17 (motorizzato)
-Settore “50.a Brigata Speciale”
---557.o Gruppo Semoventi da 75/18 (meno una batteria)
---58.o Gruppo da 75/46 da posizione
---69.a batteria da 75/27 (da posizione)
---35.o Gruppo da 75/46 del 3.o Reggimento Contraerei
---71.o e 78.o Gruppi da 75/46 da posizione

Bests
César
 
63.o anti tank tank battalion
At the moment he did not have anti-tank weapons because he had distributed them (the ones left) to the other two battalions targaglieri acting in practice as an anti-aircraft coverage battalion and as a reserve.
22. or artillery battalion
The artisans were a branch of the genius of the royal army. Theoretically they were intended for "artifacts", that is, in practice to build while the spoilers were intended to demolish. In fact, however, they were a line hybrid intended to support line infantry mainly in field tasks.
the 34th and 40th artillery groupings and the 380th GAF groupings were left without pieces at the moment because theirs had redistributed them with servants to the line divisions to reintegrate the pieces lost in the previous battles. At the time they had neither pieces nor servants they were just a command with the minimum of regimental artillery services.
Unfortunately for the units of the 5th army I have no certain information on the equipment at the time of the artillery pieces or of the vehicles.
All the best
maurizio
 

Indragnir

New Member
Maurizio, do you know what units (and date if available) were sent from Primera Armata to 5th Panzer Army since April 22nd?
 
According to the official report of the General Mass Commander of the 1st Italian army in Tunisia On day 23 the Aufklarung Abteilung 3 was transferred while on day 24 all the remaining and self-propelled wagons were sent (14 German tamks, 12 tanks and 12 Italian self-propelled) in the Sector of Medjez el Bab as well as the Luftwaffe battalion was alerted to pass also on the front of the 5th army which, however, for the moment passed to his command but remained in place on the front of the 1st Italian army. On April 25, the 5th Bersaglieri Regiment (reduced to just 500 men), the pioneer battalion of the 90 leichte div (900. Pioneer BTL), a 149/40 group and a German 210mm battery, were moved to Mateur. also two 100/17 batteries and one German 170mm battery. On 26 April the Piscicelli Group will also go to the 5th Army.
These are the units passed in command to the 5th Pz Armee in the Mass report.
All the best
Maurizio
 

Indragnir

New Member
Excellent, as usual.
You even included strength for 5th Bersaglieri.

Those sent on 24th April, the self-propelled were semovente 47/32? or higher calibre?
Piscicelli Group was sent on 26th so his vehicles were not included in those transfered on 24th I presume? If I'm right do you know how many tanks and SP vehicles he had?

Thanks Maurizio
 
Unfortunately, the data (even the official ones) are not always matching, however even if the Piscicelli Group was actually transferred on the 26th he himself grouped at the moment the total of the tanks at that time available at the 1st Italian army therefore 14 German tanks, 12 Italian M41 and 12 self-propelled (of which 3 M75 the others all 47mm). Another thing to note is also: the German reports of the time show that 14 German tanks (which therefore match the ones in charge at Piscicelli) but 9 Italian M41 tanks and only 3 47 / 32 Italians. Therefore it is not clear what the most reliable source is. It would perhaps be conceivable that the German total corresponded to the total of the wagons actually active while the Italian one was also inclusive of those under repair ....... but it is not clear at all. After all, German sources also mention the availability in the 5th Panzer army of an additional 37 tanks, all of which can be used immediately, all German ...... but unfortunately I cannot be more precise. However, at least the certainty that all the wagons transferred from the 1st army to the 5th were those of Piscicelli is undoubted .....
All the best
Maurizio
 

Indragnir

New Member
Thank you Maurizio.

Now I continue to pester you: what units do you know their strength? (like 5th Bersaglieri)
So far Artillery and tanks you have posted, I asked about AT guns so basically what remains is number of men on the units.

PS: If you have german numbers I'm interested also.
 
Unfortunately for this period of the campaign it is not easy to find this type of data ... also many times between the German and Italian data there are discrepancies ...... however I will try to find what I have ..... with a little of time...
All the best
Maurizio
 
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