Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:58 am by anlushac11
A good break for Italians was that the T-34/76's and KV-1's were scattered throughout the front.
The standard Soviet tank in June of 1941 was still the T-26 and BT light tanks and the T-28 medium. The T-34/76, KV-1, and T-60 light tank comprised only 8% of the Soviet armored forces in June 1941.
Against the T-26 and BT's the L6/40's, M11-39 and M13/40 would have had a much easier time.
Another major problem for the Soviets was that they were in the process of disbanding the Mechanized Corps and reorganizing the armored forces into Independent tank Brigades.
The T-34's and KV-1's instead of being grouped together into a concentrated unit were spread out piecemeal with a few T-34's and usually one or two KV's to a Armored unit. This watering down and dispersal of the T-34 and KV-1 was a major factor in preventing the new tanks from playinng a major part in stopping the advance.
If you have ever read about the panic and destruction that T-34's and KV-1's caused to the Germans at places like Rossienie, where a single lone KV-2 held off the entire 6th Panzer Divison for one whole day, its possible to imagine what a whole Independant tank Brigade of T-34's could have done.
We are Rangers. We walk in the dark places no one will enter. We do not break away from combat. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We do not retreat whatever the reason. We live for the one. We die for the one.
A good break for Italians was that the T-34/76's and KV-1's were scattered throughout the front.
The standard Soviet tank in June of 1941 was still the T-26 and BT light tanks and the T-28 medium. The T-34/76, KV-1, and T-60 light tank comprised only 8% of the Soviet armored forces in June 1941.
Against the T-26 and BT's the L6/40's, M11-39 and M13/40 would have had a much easier time.
Another major problem for the Soviets was that they were in the process of disbanding the Mechanized Corps and reorganizing the armored forces into Independent tank Brigades.
The T-34's and KV-1's instead of being grouped together into a concentrated unit were spread out piecemeal with a few T-34's and usually one or two KV's to a Armored unit. This watering down and dispersal of the T-34 and KV-1 was a major factor in preventing the new tanks from playinng a major part in stopping the advance.
If you have ever read about the panic and destruction that T-34's and KV-1's caused to the Germans at places like Rossienie, where a single lone KV-2 held off the entire 6th Panzer Divison for one whole day, its possible to imagine what a whole Independant tank Brigade of T-34's could have done.
We are Rangers. We walk in the dark places no one will enter. We do not break away from combat. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We do not retreat whatever the reason. We live for the one. We die for the one.
Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:04 pm by usaOtzie
I only read half way through the thread, then ran upstairs to get my books...The Eastern Front by Squadron/Signal Pubs, Stephen Zaloga and James Grandsen provide only 1 page of info...but it is priceless. See above statement in this thread. Don't foget guys, in the Southern Front where the 8th Army was deployed, T-34s and KV-1s were very rare. Although one or any would be a handful, I seem to recall the Italians did in fact continue to move forward for about 5 months. I don't know what local methods were used but they seem to have been effective. Seems I have one of Geoge Fortys books here that state some T-34s were pressed into use as forward artillery observation vehicles. My personal guess is no more than 3. Otherwise they may have pressed into use as a combat platoon, like their Gertman counterparts. I have always maintaned that Italy would have been herder to deal with had they concentrated their forces in Africa and left Russia to the Germans. Respectfully, Eric
"Those that fail to study history are doomed to repeat it."
I only read half way through the thread, then ran upstairs to get my books...The Eastern Front by Squadron/Signal Pubs, Stephen Zaloga and James Grandsen provide only 1 page of info...but it is priceless. See above statement in this thread. Don't foget guys, in the Southern Front where the 8th Army was deployed, T-34s and KV-1s were very rare. Although one or any would be a handful, I seem to recall the Italians did in fact continue to move forward for about 5 months. I don't know what local methods were used but they seem to have been effective. Seems I have one of Geoge Fortys books here that state some T-34s were pressed into use as forward artillery observation vehicles. My personal guess is no more than 3. Otherwise they may have pressed into use as a combat platoon, like their Gertman counterparts. I have always maintaned that Italy would have been herder to deal with had they concentrated their forces in Africa and left Russia to the Germans. Respectfully, Eric
"Those that fail to study history are doomed to repeat it."
Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:01 am by Ivanmajor
how can an Army to fight with cannons whom are not able to break the enemy tanks? how can an army moove themself by feets in the neverending iced Ukraine? Shitty chioce to fight with this equipement. Poor erohic camerades died in this war! A noi!.
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how can an Army to fight with cannons whom are not able to break the enemy tanks? how can an army moove themself by feets in the neverending iced Ukraine? Shitty chioce to fight with this equipement. Poor erohic camerades died in this war! A noi!.
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Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:39 pm by gorrini
For Tankredi.
Italian tanks on Russian front were the L 3/33 (in august 1941, in the "3° Celere") and the L 6/40; armoured car AB 41 were used too (after 1943, they were used by croatians). Only 55 L 6/40 were sent in 1942, all destroyed in fights.
For Tankredi.
Italian tanks on Russian front were the L 3/33 (in august 1941, in the "3° Celere") and the L 6/40; armoured car AB 41 were used too (after 1943, they were used by croatians). Only 55 L 6/40 were sent in 1942, all destroyed in fights.
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:13 am by michele
Actually (1941/1942) only
61 L3 in 1941 (survivors returned early 1942),
31 L6 and 19 47/32 Self-propelled guns (on L6 chassis) in 1942 (all lost).
Actually (1941/1942) only
61 L3 in 1941 (survivors returned early 1942),
31 L6 and 19 47/32 Self-propelled guns (on L6 chassis) in 1942 (all lost).
Ivanmajor wrote:how can an Army to fight with cannons whom are not able to break the enemy tanks? how can an army moove themself by feets in the neverending iced Ukraine? Shitty chioce to fight with this equipement. Poor erohic camerades died in this war! A noi!.
Yes, a real crime against humanity (against own people, in this case)
