• As some of you know, the old forum database was deleted by the previous administrator. I am attempting to paste any retrievable discussions back into this forum using the internet archive. It won't look pretty - but at least we can preserve some valuable information. Feel free to add to the discussions as these old posts are restored.

Italy: Post WWll - Present

9/30/2019
An attack on U.S. and Italian forces in Somalia:
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"In the second attack, a bomb blast targeted a peace-keeping envoy from Italy. The Italian Ministry of Defense confirmed that the convoy was hit by explosions, but stated that no injuries had been reported. Images of the attack seen by Newsweek showed that a light-armored vehicle had been sheared open from the attack and extensive damage had been caused to nearby buildings.
No casualties reported except for a Somali civilian."


From Analisidefesa:

"Local media reported the explosion of an improvised device (IED) stating that the Italian convoy was on the Jaale-Siyaad road and had just left the "Green zone" (the protected area that includes the port and airport and houses some ministries , government offices and international bodies presided over by the Somali military) to head to the Somali Ministry of Defense."

The U.S. base that was hit was apparently a drone base for the MQ9 Reaper.
 

jwsleser

Member
Staff member
Forze Armata video 2019

 
Thank you.

The detailed report of the above attack has been released:

"The extremely detailed report reveals that the Italian soldiers were injured aboard a Ford 4 × 4 pick-up vehicle, a civil vehicle without armor-plated vehicles or protected against mines and IEDs used together with the 4 × 4 Toyota by the peshmergas. The improvised explosive device exploded under the vehicle carrying 5 Italians and 2 Kurds, all wounded in the lower limbs."

"Moreover, it should not be surprising that the men of the Italian and Allied Special Forces operate mixed with the local troops to whom they offer assistance and move aboard their own vehicles also in order not to be visible and distinguishable in the eyes of the enemy as would happen if they were employed military vehicles supplied to the Coalition but not to Kurdish or Iraqi forces."
 
I don't remember hearing about this in any news, so take it with a grain of salt:
It's dated 1/31/2019 and says an Italian CV was damaged in a training accident with an Israeli warship that actually fired on it by accident.
Luckily they were jamming rockets that fragmented but some managed to enter the ship.
There isn't any photos and I've never heard of this incident so I'm not sure it passes the smell test.

Also, an Iraqi made RPG seized by Italian soldiers during their operations in Iraq dated 10/2004:
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Youtube Video with Italian Army summer maneuvers:

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It looks like a Fiat Campagnola with 106mm recoilless. I'm trying to ID the jets @1:35. I think they're Sabres.
 

Pasqual

New Member
Interesting article about the Chinese 76mm and OTO Melara's version:

"The Chinese paid more attention to OTO Melara developments because this Italian original was steadily updated so that by the 1990s it was effective against anti-ship missiles. What made this possible was the AHEAD shell which could be programmed by the fire control system while in the gun to detonate at a specific distance from the gun and produce a cone of tungsten (heavy metal) projectiles that acted like a shotgun shell that did serious damage to missiles or aircraft. AHEAD shells came in various calibers (30mm-76mm) and the Chinese/Russian version could reliably destroy and incoming missile (like the Harpoon) with under 25 rounds fired at 120 RPM (two per second). The PJ26 can fire single rounds at surface targets as quickly or slowly as desired. Smaller caliber versions (30-40mm) used as anti-aircraft or IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle) weapons could disable a tank with AHEAD ammo by shredding all external sensors and fire control system components. The tank crew would survive but they would be unable to use their main gun because the fire control system was destroyed. Against aircraft, the effects are worse because of such shredding damages jets and helicopters to the point where they can no longer fly."

The article seems a bit off. Since it's not sourced, I have to wonder how accurate it is.
All I can say is that I source inspected this naval gun for the US Dept. of Defense from 1995-2000. The US Navy had an ongoing contract which it used to supply ourselves and Malaysia. Oto Melara in La Spezia also manufactured Italy's most modern armoured vehicle and the Oto Mat anti ship missile which they claimed was the same used by the argentines in the Falkland's against the british navy as the French version EXOCIT. The OTOMAT was unique in that it dove vertically on its target.
 
That would be my dream job. I always wanted to work at OTO or Fiat.

I found the CIA reports about the Melara Club to be mostly much ado about nothing. They were just trying to keep track of Italian weapons exports.
Though there was that one time, IIRC, that they sold off a bunch of American equipment and steel to Israel or Lebanon. It's in the files somewhere.


F-104 Starfighter from one of the parades posted above.
1584479839031.png
 

jwsleser

Member
Staff member
I don't believe those are F-104s. Wings are too long for the aircraft (Starfighter has stubby wings), nose is rounded (Starfighter is pointed), Starfighters never had wingtip tanks, engine exhaust extents too far beyond the tail.

I am thinking T-33s or something similar.
 
Yep, my mistake. Sure looks like a T-33:
1584581922444.png

Did you see the machine gun? Is that a Breda M37? My eyes don't work so good with B&W blurry pictures.
 

jwsleser

Member
Staff member
Did you see the machine gun? Is that a Breda M37? My eyes don't work so good with B&W blurry pictures.
Yes, I believe that is a Breda M37. The tripod mount is a definitive clue. The M37 was considered a very good MG, the tray feed seen as the only real drawback.
 

Pasqual

New Member
That would be my dream job. I always wanted to work at OTO or Fiat.

I found the CIA reports about the Melara Club to be mostly much ado about nothing. They were just trying to keep track of Italian weapons exports.
Though there was that one time, IIRC, that they sold off a bunch of American equipment and steel to Israel or Lebanon. It's in the files somewhere.


F-104 Starfighter from one of the parades posted above.
View attachment 427
Programs that I was overseeing like Agusta were forced to abandon their forging suppliers in the US in order to give the work to contractors in Israel like Carmel in Nazareth, which turned out defective product to which Agusta argued blame. Progress payment awards were also made in Israeli contractors without any progress being made on them, whistleblowers were sent back to the states. Much more money was provided under the radar in this manner, contract awards were (are) very politicized / ,,, on the other hand destroyer vessels sold to IRAQ and paid for were interned at la spezia docks unable to return with IRAQI crews on board, 1991 circa.
 
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