Lanciafiamme and/or the No. of Somua S-35 French tanks used by the Italians.

jwsleser

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Posted 01 June 2003 - 11:52 PM by NICK

I am looking for the production figures of the LanciaFlamme and/or the No. of Somua S-35 French tanks used by the Italians. please help.

Posted 01 June 2003 - 11:53 PM by Lupo Solitario

Nick
about flamethrowers tank I've no more infos than Guido. I can tell you that Italy received from Germany 32 SOMUA tanks (of 50 first offered) probably in 1941. Their prestations were seen unsatisfactory and they were employed only on Italian territory. SOMUA equipped a tank battalion which was deployed for Sardinia defence and never fought

Lupo

Posted 01 June 2003 - 11:53 PM by Guido Ronconi

There are no official figures about the number of L3 Flamethrower produced: in fact in the figures given by the producer there were no difference between the L3 with MGs and the L3 with flamethrower, so that now nobody really knows exactly how many L3 with flamethrower were produced. Anyway in the literature the estimates vary between 100 and 200. Same uncertainity about the L6 flamethrower: few were produced, but how many exactly is not known (some writers tell it was built just the prototype).
About the Somua S 35 I need some days to get the informations.
Sorry if I could not help you, but there is probably nowhere a sure answer to your questions. Hoffentlich höre ich was von Dir.
Best greetings
 
Just thought I would add what I can about the flamethrowers. it doesn't give a total for the NA theater or production figures but mentions those found in Tobruk. It's from an old Vollketten post from here:


"Official M.I 10 report into CV.3 "Report on Light Tank in Cyrenaica" dated March 1941 marked 'SECRET'

  • 1 x example found abandoned between Sidi-Barrani and Benghazi.
  • "Very few appear to have been knocked out or broken down"
  • not really a tank - really is a 'carrier;
  • design is based on carden loyd carrier but is better:
    • has an enclosed roof
    • front MG's are mounted in a tank type fitting
  • A Number of variation of the design have been seen:
    • "type mounting a 30mm Solothurn AT rifle instead of the standard twin 8mm MG's" [verbatim]
  • 4x machines captured near Tobruk were fitted with flame throwers with fuel carried in trailer behind. No evidence of these being used against British troops
  • Specification:
    • Dimensions 10ft long x 4'8" wide, [height is really hard to read but appears to say 6ft 3"], weight 2 1/2 to 3 tons "(unconfirmed)"
    • Armour:
      • vertical front plate 14mm,
      • upper glacis 14mm,
      • lower glacis plate 7mm,
      • side in front 14mm,
      • sides in rear 7mm
      • back 7mm
      • roof 7mm
    • Engine: Fiat 4 cylinder petrol arranged in two blocks of 2 cylinders
    • Tracks: cast steel type from 15 tooth drive wheel or 5 1/2 [unclear] pitch. Double bar tread 7" [unclear fraction] wide
    • Suspension: 7 bogie wheels each side, one single one in front of the idler wheel at the rear and two or the three mounts sprung by arrangement of louvres from a common leaf spring.
    • Markings: "Fiat-Ansaldo" or "Officina-Automobilistica P [maybe an R] Esercito Rev 23/1/39" [from a plate in the crew compartment]
    • Tracks are marked "Ansaldo"
The "30mm Solothurn" is obviously a typo and should read 20mm.
 
Another repot about the S-35 Somua from Vollketten (archive scans)

Sorry it doesn't give numbers.

"Foreign vehicles mentioned:
  • 100 x Renault FT supplied in 1918 from France
  • 20 x Schneider Ca tanks supplied 1918 from France but 'little used'
  • 25 x Carden-Loyd Mk.VI tankettes purchased from Vickers in 1929
  • Somua [S.35] tanks supplied by Germany in 1941 used to equip a reserve unit and for training
  • Renault R.35 tanks supplied by Germany in 1941 used to equip two reserve tank battalions.
    • Of limited value due to lack of spare parts
  • PzKpfw VI Tiger Ausf E
    • Early summer 1941 [I think the year here has to be a typo in the material] Germany supplied 36 x Tiger 1 tanks [this is significantly more than other sources have given] to Italy equip the 1st (Mussolini) Armoured Division
    • Saw limited employment prior to September 1943
    • Remaining vehicles returned to Germany
  • Soviet T-34:
    • A 'few' known to have been crewed by Italian forces on the Russian front in 1943"
 
More from Vollketten on the Somua S-35:

"From: 'Hitlers Great Panzer Heist' by Anthony Tucker Jones, Stackpole Books 2006

Page 169-170
Table of Italian tank, assault gun and armoured car production 1933-44

Model
...................................................Italian build 1933-43......................................German build 1943-44
L3/33 & 35 tankette........................................2000....................................................................17 (+ 148 confiscated)
L6/4 light tank...................................................283......................................................................0 ( + ? confiscated)
M11/39 medium tank........................................100......................................................................0
M13/40 medium tank.........................................785....................................................................22
M14/41 medium tank.........................................895......................................................................1
M15/42 medium tank...........................................92....................................................................28 (+ 92 confiscated)
P26/40 heavy tank................................................5 (200 ordered).............................................100
M41/M42 command vehicle................................16......................................................................41 (+ 16 confiscated)
L40 da 47/32 light assault gun..........................300........................................................................0 (+ 78 confiscated)
da 75/18 assault gun........................................200.......................................................................55 (+ 123 confiscated)
da 75/34 assault gun..........................................90 (500 ordered)................................................80 (+ 36 confiscated)
da 105/25 assault howitzer.................................26 ( 495 ordered)...............................................91 (+ 26 confiscated)
Rearmed da 105/25 assault gun with
75/34 or 75/46....................................................0...........................................................................40
AB40 armoured car............................................24
AB41 armoured car...........................................500........................................................................87 (+ 23 confiscated)
AB41/43 armoured car........................................10.......................................................................120 (+ 37 confiscated)
Lancia Lincie Armoured Car..................................0.......................................................................250

Subtotal:...............................................................5326....................................................................932
Total.....................................................................5326...................................................................1511

Italian Tank and Assault Gun Imports from Germany 1940-43

Model
....................................................................No......................................................................Delivered
Renault R-35/ PzKpfw 35-R 731(f)........................109.......................................................................1940
Somua S-35/ PzKpfw 35-s 739(f)............................32........................................................................1941
Panzerkamfwagen III...............................................12........................................................................1943
Panzerkamfwagen IV...............................................12........................................................................1943
Sturmgeschutz III.....................................................12........................................................................1943

Total..........................................................................177.....................................................................1940-43 "

The number he gives in his table is extremely close to 33, which is listed below from a different source- Italian number plates:

Translated by Imperator from here:


Guglielmo Evangelista
PLATES OF ARMORED VEHICLES AND ARMOURED
INTRODUCTION

Part of that vast list:
"1943-45 98
Renault R35 1935-40109 Former French war booty.
Delivered in 1941
Somua S.35 1935 33 Former French war booty.
Delivered in 1941
Former German PzKpfw IIIN 1943 12 returned 8/9/43
Former German PzKpfw IIIG 1943 12 returned 8/9/43
Former German PzKpfw IVH 1943 12 returned 9/8/43
T 34 1940-45 Former USSR war booty
Gettaponte Valentine 2 ^ GM Former British handed over 1946-47
M1 Tank mounting "

The list of plates is from this PDF file (follow the links)

On trial in Naples:
1565635835112.png



And the last tid- bit has allegedly the # of R-35s sent to Italy.
http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/200193-italian-tanks-and-military-vehicles/page__st__860__p__4674025#entry4674025

At the bottom of the list:

Tanks and Sturmgescutz
  • 12 x Pzkfw III N,
  • 12 x Pzkfw IV G,
  • 12 x StuG III G
  • French Somua R-35: Quantity 3 - 1942 (almost no spares)
  • and a flak train which was a personal gift from Hitler to Mussolini in 1940.
I don't know anything about that website, so take it with a grain of whatever spice you're into.
 
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