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TOE Brescia Division March 31-May 30 1941?

Wargames

Member
I have it containing the artillery regiment of 1st Celeri division, two infantry regiments (19 and 2) of 3x Fusilier battalions each. I am wanting to know how many men and trucks it had to transport them? I know Rommel changed it from 1940.
 
Hi.

At this time it was a Divisione Autotrasportabile A.S.40. So in theory it would have had an Autosezione mista tipo AS which would have had enough lorries to motorise the I & II Gruppi 1st Reggimento D'Artiglieria Celere, which were the only artillery within the Division at the time, and perhaps another two battalion sized units.
 
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It is true that the Brescia division at the time was still a self-transportable division of the AS40 type but it had undergone many changes also following the "robbery" carried out against it to increase the power of the divisions of the 10th Army during Compass which were then irretrievably lost ...however at that time the division had received the 1st regiment of the rapid division to replace its old regiment sold at the time of Compass and lost by other units, moreover it had been "reinvented" by adding loose weapons also of an obsolete nature as well as enhancing its anti-tank and anti-aircraft component by detaching the machine-gun battalion instead. As usual, however, the division was left like almost all the Italian divisions of the period with a serious handicap in means of transport. In fact each regimental group had sufficient means of transport only to truck one of its two battalions (both regiments fighting as regimental groups had had to leave one of the battalions in Tripoli) and therefore a peculiarity throughout the duration of the operations was that the groups they had to move by sudden changes alternating between transport by truck and on foot with the consequent evident and significant negative effects on the maneuvers to be carried out.
all the best
Maurizio
 

jwsleser

Administrator
Staff member
The 19º e 20º rgt. f. each had three battalions in 1940. As Maurizio stated, one btg. from each rgt. was left at Tripoli during Compass. Of the two btg. of each rgt. sent forward. only one of each rgt. could be transported at a time. The division had the 55º rgt. art. in 1940, but was detached to the 10ª Armata and destroyed as Maurizio stated. The 1º rgt. art. c. replaced the 55º rgt.art. in the division in 1941.

Pista! Jeff
 

jwsleser

Administrator
Staff member
Okay, I forgot the title of this thread. This is the OB, not a TO&E.

DIVISIONE FANTERIA « BRESCIA » (27ª) Generale di divisione Bartolo Zambon - Comandante

Stato maggiore
Quartier generale:
- 127° sezione mista cc.rr.
- 96° uff. postale con nucleo cc.rr.

19° reggimento fanteria: (1)
- I battaglione
- Il battaglione
- III battaglione (meno cp. a.a.), al XX Corpo d’Armata (cinta fortificata)
- Compagnia mortai da 81
- 34° btr. da 65/17 « Livorno »

20° reggimento fanteria; (1)
- I battaglione
- II battaglione (meno cp. a.a.), al XX Corpo d’Armata
- III battaglione
- Compagnia mortai da 81
- 38º btr. da 65/17 « Ravenna »

5º compagnia cannoni da 47/32
71° compagnia cannoni da 47/32
227° compagnia cannoni da 47/32 (in approntamento)

1°reggimento artiglieria celere:
- I gruppo da 75/27-11 (2 btr.)
- II gruppo da 75/27-11 (2 btr.)
- 7° batteria da 20 m/m.
- 8º batteria da 20 m/m. 502* batteria da 20 m/m.

Battaglione complementi (XXVII), al XX Corpo d’Armata (cinta fortificata)
Sezione sanità (34ª)
Sezione sussistenza (34ª)
Autosezione mista (328ª)

ELEMENTI DI RINFORZO:
- a) avuto dal X Corpo d’Armata: XV gruppo da 105/28 del 16° ragg. art. di Cd'A (3 btr.)
- b) temporaneamente: 102* cp. da 47/32 della Divisione « Trento »

Footnote (1)
I reggimenti di fanteria sono rinforzati da:
‐ 3 plotoni da 37/45,
‐ 2 plotoni mtr. Schwarzlose.

Source: La prima controffensiva italio-tedesca in Africa settentrionale, pp.337–338
 
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Wargames

Member
Thanks again!

Can you translate these?

ELEMENTI DI RINFORZO:
- a) avuto dal X Corpo d’Armata: XV gruppo da 105/28 del 16° rgt. artiglieria (3 btr.)
- b) temporaneamente: 102* cp. da 47/32 della Divisione « Trento »

Footnote (1)
I reggimenti di fanteria sono rinforzati da:
‐ 3 plotoni da 37/45,
‐ 2 plotoni mtr. Schwarzlose.

The rest I can figure out.
 

jwsleser

Administrator
Staff member
Reinforcements/attachments units/elements:
a) From the X Cd'A:
b) Temporarily:

The infantry regiments were reinforced with:
 

Francoquarter

New Member
Sorry jwsleser it's not a bit strange the notation XV gruppo of 16° rgt?
as far i understand rgt is for regiment and 105/28 is not a gun in use in the field rgt, almost not so early, and the gruppi within a rgt were not numbered like I, II, III and so on?
 

Wargames

Member
Sorry jwsleser it's not a bit strange the notation XV gruppo of 16° rgt?
as far i understand rgt is for regiment and 105/28 is not a gun in use in the field rgt, almost not so early, and the gruppi within a rgt were not numbered like I, II, III and so on?
I believe that's a reference to corps artillery and not divisional.
 
You are both right, it is due to a mere writing error. The 15th Group was organic to the 16th ARMY CORPS GROUPING which in turn had received it directly from the Higher Command in reinforcement. Therefore the 10th Army Corps had then given it in turn to reinforce the Brescia division.
ALl the best
Maurizio
 

jwsleser

Administrator
Staff member
Francoquarter

Good catch on the error. It is a typo in the book. It is the 16º ragg. art. Cd'A. Fixed above.

In the X Cd'A section:
16RaggArt.jpeg


What was written in the Brescia section:
Brescia.jpeg



Pista! Jeff
 
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Oasis

New Member
Okay, I forgot the title of this thread. This is the OB, not a TO&E.

DIVISIONE FANTERIA « BRESCIA » (27ª) Generale di divisione Zambon Bartolo - Comandante

Stato maggiore
Quartier generale:
- 127° sezione mista cc.rr.
- 96° uff. postale con nucleo cc.rr.

19° reggimento fanteria: (1)
- I battaglione
- Il battaglione
- III battaglione (meno cp. a.a.), al XX Corpo d’Armata (cinta fortificata)
- Compagnia mortai da 81
- 34° btr. da 65/17 « Livorno »

20° reggimento fanteria; (1)
- I battaglione
- II battaglione (meno cp. a.a.), al XX Corpo d’Armata
- III battaglione
- Compagnia mortai da 81
- 38º btr. da 65/17 « Ravenna »

5º compagnia cannoni da 47/32
71° compagnia cannoni da 47/32
227° compagnia cannoni da 47/32 (in approntamento)

1°reggimento artiglieria celere:
- I gruppo da 75/27-11 (2 btr.)
- II gruppo da 75/27-11 (2 btr.)
- 7° batteria da 20 m/m.
- 8º batteria da 20 m/m. 502* batteria da 20 m/m.

Battaglione complementi (XXVII), al XX Corpo d’Armata (cinta fortificata)
Sezione sanità (34ª)
Sezione sussistenza (34ª)
Autosezione mista (328ª)

ELEMENTI DI RINFORZO:
- a) avuto dal X Corpo d’Armata: XV gruppo da 105/28 del 16° ragg. art. di Cd'A (3 btr.)
- b) temporaneamente: 102* cp. da 47/32 della Divisione « Trento »

Footnote (1)
I reggimenti di fanteria sono rinforzati da:
‐ 3 plotoni da 37/45,
‐ 2 plotoni mtr. Schwarzlose.

Source: La prima controffensiva italio-tedesca in Africa settentrionale, pp.337–338
The correct name of the general was Bortolo Zambon.
Ciao
 

jwsleser

Administrator
Staff member
Oasis

Thank you for the correction. I checked La prima controffensiva italio-tedesca in Africa settentrionale to see if if I miss copied the name, but that is what they have printed in the book. Montanari vol.2 does have the name in the correct order.

Edited.

Pista! Jeff
 

Oasis

New Member
Oasis

Thank you for the correction. I checked La prima controffensiva italio-tedesca in Africa settentrionale to see if if I miss copied the name, but that is what they have printed in the book. Montanari vol.2 does have the name in the correct order.

Edited.

Pista! Jeff
Right Jeff, sometimes even in the same battalion some names are poorly written from one document to another.
Bortolo Zambon will be later an important figure of the italian resistance.
Toni
 
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