Supermarina's Cryptographic Service

[Turbulent98]

14th-27th of May 1941 Sealion was at Portsmouth refitting. The boat was in home waters for most of the year. The daily positions of the boat taken from Control Room logs and Patrol reports are available on u-boat.net .
I ask you again what your post has to do with the Supermarina Cryptographic service as it doesn’t belong here.

 

[Dili]

Robert Fisk!? if you want a partisan...

 

[Bry]

14th-27th of May 1941 Sealion was at Portsmouth refitting. The boat was in home waters for most of the year. The daily positions of the boat taken from Control Room logs and Patrol reports are available on u-boat.net .
I ask you again what your post has to do with the Supermarina Cryptographic service as it doesn’t belong here.

I figured you might be connected to Andy.As I said,I contacted the archives and had several email exchanges with them
It is simply a point in time where an examination of any encoded transmissions might be of interest.

 

[Bry]

Robert Fisk!? if you want a partisan...

Fisk is a reporter who managed to get some access.I dont know much about him.I did read that the Israelis had quietly conducted an investigation of the sea floor offshore in the vicinity of the suspected interception point a few years ago.

 

[jwsleser]

If you wish to discuss the issue of Operation Boatswain, please start a new thread. If you have any knowledge whether the Italian Navy's cryptologic service provided any targetable information, please share.

Pista! Jeff

 

[Bry]

Fisk is a reporter who managed to get some access.I dont know much about him.I did read that the Israelis had quietly conducted an investigation of the sea floor offshore in the vicinity of the suspected interception point a few years ago.

If you wish to discuss the issue of Operation Bostwain, please start a new thread. If you have any knowledge whether the Italian Navy's cryptologic service provided any targetable information, please share.

Pista! Jeff

The Italians were waiting for them Jeff.They knew where and they knew when.

 

[jwsleser]

Bry

The topic is whether the Italian Navy's cryptologic service provided any targetable information. Your post doesn't establish that link. It is mere speculation on your part. If Operation Boatswain had been compromised, it could have been due to multiple other intelligence efforts beside the R.M.'s cryptologic operation.

Either provide a connection with sources, start a new thread on Boatswain, or drop it.

If you wish to discuss this with me, PM. Not in this thread.

v/r Jeff

 

[Andreas]

Hi Dili. As far as I can say about Cernuschi's research, I see that if he uses an Italian source about a damage to a British ship, it is always as the starting point, never as a settled matter. In other words, then he finds a document (a British report or testimony; or a photo) to corroborate the initial find, but he is not satisfied by an uncorroborated source. If you wish, may you quote the passages that leave you somewhat disappointed by his statements?

I have no views on Enrico's conclusions as I am not an expert either way. We have communicated regularly, and I find him to be a very helpful gentleman with good contacts in the Italian navy hierarchy, and in my view conscientious when looking for evidence. He has regularly asked me to help him out by drawing specific documents from Kew, and I have done so and provided them to him, so I know first-hand there is a thorough attempt at source analysis underlying his work.

The starting point, i.e. that we shouldn't believe everything the British official history tells us, is a robust one.

All the best

Andreas

 

[Andreas]

There is also this official history -https://www.difesa.it/Area_Storica_...azione_Servizi_Informazione/Pagine/index.aspx Unfortunately it resists any attempts by google to translate it.

Someone has run machine translations of these. They are on archive.org - look for "USMM", or if you cannot find them, PM me. Note however that almost all of these predate the release of public information about ULTRA.

All the best

Andreas

 

[Andreas]

This author is famous in Italy for his little reliability and for not having published in any respectable scientific journal, but has gained some credit in the Anglo-American world because is supported by Vincent O'Hara.

Seriously? Kissinger's observation on academic infighting comes to mind.

Enrico has published in a peer reviewed journal, and he has clearly done substantial work. The moniker 'respected' is meaningless, I am afraid. This kind of talk IMO reflects quite badly on the person doing the talking, regardless how senior they are in academia. From the somewhat awkward English I guess it's another Italian who has an axe to grind.

All the best

Andreas

 

[Turbulent98]

Someone has run machine translations of these. They are on archive.org - look for "USMM", or if you cannot find them, PM me. Note however that almost all of these predate the release of public information about ULTRA.

All the best

Andreas

I have a bookmark to the archive page with all of the translated usmm volumes but this one isn’t on that list.One of the volumes that has been translated is missing ten pages