by Metatron » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:41 am
did Italy have an air liaison man in Germany? Who was he?
Metatron
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by Tankredi » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:15 am
Filippo Anfuso
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by arturolorioli » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:47 am
Guess not. Anfuso was the RSI ambassador in Germany in 1943-45, IIRC.
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by Tankredi » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:17 pm
didn´t read the 'air', ignore my post
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by Metatron » Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:21 am
That's okay No problem I'm grateful for knowing about the RSI ambassador anyway!
Still, does anyone know who the air Liason man was?
Thanks for the RSI info!
metatron
-----------------
by SUPERMARINE » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:18 am
Well, there were plenty. The most important was general Efisio Marras, army attaché in Berlin whose role was like Gen. Von Rintelen one in Rome. There was the Italian navy and Air Force attaches too who had a similar, purely formal role of Italian Admiral and general c/o the OKW.
The Italian Ambassador was Dino Alfieri, a gentleman according to Indro Montanelli, but nothing more. The former predecessor Attolico was much more professional and influent both in Berlin and in Rome.
Major Renzetti, later Italian Ambassador in Sweden, had a great influence in the early Thirties as Mussolini's direct contact with Hitler and the Nazi party.
As a matter of fact, the question is someway crude.
Bye
EC
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by arturolorioli » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:19 pm
Metatron, I've checked, and until June 1940 the Italian "Addetto Aeronautico" (the Air Force military attache) in Berlin was Gen. Aurelio Liotta, but he then returned to Italy to command the Servizi Aerei Speciali (militarized air transport service).
Do not know who replaced him, but if I'll find anything will let you know.
All the best
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by Metatron » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:13 pm
I'm VERY sorry about the crudeness of my question I really didn't mean to appear that way & I Truly apologize
metatron
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by Folgore » Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:02 am
I agree with SUPERMARINA...Marras was the military attaché in Berlin.
He, in March 1942, suggested Rome provide proper cold weather military equipment for ARMIR...unfortunatly this was a hopeless request
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by Ennio » Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:55 am
"He, in March 1942, suggested Rome to provide proper cold weather military equipment for ARMIR...unfortunatly this was a hopeless request"
It was not so much "hopeless", as "useless", because proper winter military equipment had already been requested by Gen. Messe after the bitter experience of Winter '41/42. Not only, but by March '42 most of the equipment was in production, especially fur-lined coats, thanks to a special Decree by Mussolini who had ordered to confiscate all fur pelts in stock in Italy, including privately owned fur coats. This story is not very well known, but to cut it short, by august '42 the Armir deployed to Russia with 300.000 fur lined greatcoats, frost prevention grease, etc., all stuff designed and manufactured with the support of Finnish and German specialists (special boots were lacking, though, on the understanding that the Army would have procured locally the famous Russian felt boots, the "valenki", for which Italy did not have the necessary skills).
So, what happened? In the best Italian tradition, the General commanding the Intendence (Supply Corp) of the ARMIR simply refused to give such precious clothing to "common soldiers", limiting the issue to "Officers only", relenting a bit to allow the issue of a few more to soldier on sentry duty. All in all, 90.000 pieces were issued, leaving the other 200.000 men of the ARMIR with their "Italian winter" standard issue coat, in which they froze. The rest of the coats were burned by the retreating Italians when the Red Army broke through, getting close to the Army supply dumps.
What happened to the General?
In 1946 he was tried and sentenced not for the coats, but for "abusing of his authority in using military air transport to send to Italy Russian girls" (guess what for) and for "setting up lucrative traffic of ikons, generally stolen in local churches."
4 years later, he was re-admitted in the Army with his former rank, the promoted, reaching the rank of three-star General and the command of NATO LANDSOUTH.
Somebody must have been appreciative of those Russian girls.
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by FB » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:16 am
Interesting.
Would this General be the same one that was responsible for Intendenza under Messe with the CSIR?
Because In his memories from Russia, Messe speaks very well of his "logistic manager" so to say.
AFAIK some hundreds of valenki boots (version 2.0 i.e. upgraded (by the Germans?) with a rubber sole) were given to the troops. It was in the area around Novo Kalitva and the receivers were men of Julia Div.
Best regards
did Italy have an air liaison man in Germany? Who was he?
Metatron
-------------
by Tankredi » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:15 am
Filippo Anfuso
--------------
by arturolorioli » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:47 am
Guess not. Anfuso was the RSI ambassador in Germany in 1943-45, IIRC.
--------------------
by Tankredi » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:17 pm
didn´t read the 'air', ignore my post
-----------------
by Metatron » Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:21 am
That's okay No problem I'm grateful for knowing about the RSI ambassador anyway!
Still, does anyone know who the air Liason man was?
Thanks for the RSI info!
metatron
-----------------
by SUPERMARINE » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:18 am
Well, there were plenty. The most important was general Efisio Marras, army attaché in Berlin whose role was like Gen. Von Rintelen one in Rome. There was the Italian navy and Air Force attaches too who had a similar, purely formal role of Italian Admiral and general c/o the OKW.
The Italian Ambassador was Dino Alfieri, a gentleman according to Indro Montanelli, but nothing more. The former predecessor Attolico was much more professional and influent both in Berlin and in Rome.
Major Renzetti, later Italian Ambassador in Sweden, had a great influence in the early Thirties as Mussolini's direct contact with Hitler and the Nazi party.
As a matter of fact, the question is someway crude.
Bye
EC
---------------
by arturolorioli » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:19 pm
Metatron, I've checked, and until June 1940 the Italian "Addetto Aeronautico" (the Air Force military attache) in Berlin was Gen. Aurelio Liotta, but he then returned to Italy to command the Servizi Aerei Speciali (militarized air transport service).
Do not know who replaced him, but if I'll find anything will let you know.
All the best
-----------------
by Metatron » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:13 pm
I'm VERY sorry about the crudeness of my question I really didn't mean to appear that way & I Truly apologize
metatron
-------------
by Folgore » Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:02 am
I agree with SUPERMARINA...Marras was the military attaché in Berlin.
He, in March 1942, suggested Rome provide proper cold weather military equipment for ARMIR...unfortunatly this was a hopeless request
------------
by Ennio » Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:55 am
"He, in March 1942, suggested Rome to provide proper cold weather military equipment for ARMIR...unfortunatly this was a hopeless request"
It was not so much "hopeless", as "useless", because proper winter military equipment had already been requested by Gen. Messe after the bitter experience of Winter '41/42. Not only, but by March '42 most of the equipment was in production, especially fur-lined coats, thanks to a special Decree by Mussolini who had ordered to confiscate all fur pelts in stock in Italy, including privately owned fur coats. This story is not very well known, but to cut it short, by august '42 the Armir deployed to Russia with 300.000 fur lined greatcoats, frost prevention grease, etc., all stuff designed and manufactured with the support of Finnish and German specialists (special boots were lacking, though, on the understanding that the Army would have procured locally the famous Russian felt boots, the "valenki", for which Italy did not have the necessary skills).
So, what happened? In the best Italian tradition, the General commanding the Intendence (Supply Corp) of the ARMIR simply refused to give such precious clothing to "common soldiers", limiting the issue to "Officers only", relenting a bit to allow the issue of a few more to soldier on sentry duty. All in all, 90.000 pieces were issued, leaving the other 200.000 men of the ARMIR with their "Italian winter" standard issue coat, in which they froze. The rest of the coats were burned by the retreating Italians when the Red Army broke through, getting close to the Army supply dumps.
What happened to the General?
In 1946 he was tried and sentenced not for the coats, but for "abusing of his authority in using military air transport to send to Italy Russian girls" (guess what for) and for "setting up lucrative traffic of ikons, generally stolen in local churches."
4 years later, he was re-admitted in the Army with his former rank, the promoted, reaching the rank of three-star General and the command of NATO LANDSOUTH.
Somebody must have been appreciative of those Russian girls.
-------------
by FB » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:16 am
Interesting.
Would this General be the same one that was responsible for Intendenza under Messe with the CSIR?
Because In his memories from Russia, Messe speaks very well of his "logistic manager" so to say.
AFAIK some hundreds of valenki boots (version 2.0 i.e. upgraded (by the Germans?) with a rubber sole) were given to the troops. It was in the area around Novo Kalitva and the receivers were men of Julia Div.
Best regards
