Posted 08 July 2009 - 07:26 PM by Dili
In http://www.regioesercito.it/reparti/artiglieria/intervento.htm
Says that 9 batteries 88/35 were sent by Germany for DICAT. Anyone knows when they arrived?
Posted 13 July 2009 - 01:46 PM by Gian
From Wikipedia (I hope this is the stuff you're looking for).
In June 1939 Italy had large credits (about 300 millions Lire of the time) in Germany for the sale of finished goods, so the Italian War Department proposed to extinguish such credits with the allottment of 50x 88mm Flak batteries and related ammunition. The proposal was accepted, event though the Germans pointed out that such quantity of guns was not available. So, the debt was partly extinguished with 88 Flak (88/55 in Italian nomenclature) and partly with 75 mm M37(t) guns (75/50 in the Italian designation). The proposal put forward by German authorities included the supply of Italian-made spare parts for anti-aircraft and anti-tank guns, therefore the production of artillery spares was started in the Ansaldo (Genoa and Pozzuoli) and OTO works. The batteries were provieded complete with Zeiss 36 fire adjustment unit (the so called Kommandogerät) and auxiliary apparatuses.
Deliveries started a few days after Italy's entry in the war: they were first allotted to the MACA (anti-aircraft MVSN) for the protection of the largest cities; others were sent to Libya for harbor defence. Some groups were later assigned to motorized artillery units, yet it was soon evident that Regio Esercito had no tractor suitable for the tow of the 88 gun since the task was committed to Lancia 3RO vehicles with no for-wheel drive. At the end of 1940, 44 guns and the related fire adjustment units had been delivered. Starting from October 1942 several batteries, although remaining in German possession, were manned by Italian personnel (both officers and men) for the defence of military bases and cities; this custom was further intensified in 1943, reaching a peak of 100 batteries. Further than the armament coming through the channels established in 1940, 24 more guns and as many SdKfz 7 tractors were transferred in 1943 to equip the 1st MVSN Armored Division. In the Regio Esercito, the 88/55 gun was used in its customary role, e.g. Flak, whereas the use as an AT weapon was limited to North Africa (Libya and Tunisia) and only in few motorized groups ("Gruppi Autocampali").
Posted 13 July 2009 - 07:35 PM by Dili
Nope but thanks. Note this were DICAT/MACA guns.Anyway in that site says 88/35, unless another typo they are different guns.
Posted 13 August 2010 - 12:58 PM by Franco
88/35 it's clearly a missprint for 88/55 (italian name of german 88/56). i know from other source that 88/55 were imported for DICAT
Posted 13 August 2010 - 01:25 PM by Dili
Thanks, do you know any more detail? DICAT/MACA is a very elusive topic. I have only conflicting numbers of 175 to 234 batteries at 10 June start. And conflicting numbers of guns too. Probably some data includes units out mainland others not.
Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:54 PM by Franco
i've a DICAT with 234 btryes (source "La Regia Aeronautica 1939-1943" of N. Arena volume I) of this 9 (36 guns) with 88/55 the other modern guns are 480 76/40 and 28 75/48. the Dicat covered also Lybia.
also with anti aircraft work there were 239 btryes of DCA (crews were both milmart (149 btryes) and RM (90))
the guns were 14 100/47, 309 76/40, 84 102/45, 32 90/50.
the DAT (RA) had only 8mm and 20mm in airport defence in north africa
the RE (field) had 18 88/55, 84 75/51, 76 75/46
75/51 maybe a wrong in the source i don't think the RE bought guns from french before of war
In http://www.regioesercito.it/reparti/artiglieria/intervento.htm
Says that 9 batteries 88/35 were sent by Germany for DICAT. Anyone knows when they arrived?
Posted 13 July 2009 - 01:46 PM by Gian
From Wikipedia (I hope this is the stuff you're looking for).
In June 1939 Italy had large credits (about 300 millions Lire of the time) in Germany for the sale of finished goods, so the Italian War Department proposed to extinguish such credits with the allottment of 50x 88mm Flak batteries and related ammunition. The proposal was accepted, event though the Germans pointed out that such quantity of guns was not available. So, the debt was partly extinguished with 88 Flak (88/55 in Italian nomenclature) and partly with 75 mm M37(t) guns (75/50 in the Italian designation). The proposal put forward by German authorities included the supply of Italian-made spare parts for anti-aircraft and anti-tank guns, therefore the production of artillery spares was started in the Ansaldo (Genoa and Pozzuoli) and OTO works. The batteries were provieded complete with Zeiss 36 fire adjustment unit (the so called Kommandogerät) and auxiliary apparatuses.
Deliveries started a few days after Italy's entry in the war: they were first allotted to the MACA (anti-aircraft MVSN) for the protection of the largest cities; others were sent to Libya for harbor defence. Some groups were later assigned to motorized artillery units, yet it was soon evident that Regio Esercito had no tractor suitable for the tow of the 88 gun since the task was committed to Lancia 3RO vehicles with no for-wheel drive. At the end of 1940, 44 guns and the related fire adjustment units had been delivered. Starting from October 1942 several batteries, although remaining in German possession, were manned by Italian personnel (both officers and men) for the defence of military bases and cities; this custom was further intensified in 1943, reaching a peak of 100 batteries. Further than the armament coming through the channels established in 1940, 24 more guns and as many SdKfz 7 tractors were transferred in 1943 to equip the 1st MVSN Armored Division. In the Regio Esercito, the 88/55 gun was used in its customary role, e.g. Flak, whereas the use as an AT weapon was limited to North Africa (Libya and Tunisia) and only in few motorized groups ("Gruppi Autocampali").
Posted 13 July 2009 - 07:35 PM by Dili
Nope but thanks. Note this were DICAT/MACA guns.Anyway in that site says 88/35, unless another typo they are different guns.
Posted 13 August 2010 - 12:58 PM by Franco
88/35 it's clearly a missprint for 88/55 (italian name of german 88/56). i know from other source that 88/55 were imported for DICAT
Posted 13 August 2010 - 01:25 PM by Dili
Thanks, do you know any more detail? DICAT/MACA is a very elusive topic. I have only conflicting numbers of 175 to 234 batteries at 10 June start. And conflicting numbers of guns too. Probably some data includes units out mainland others not.
Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:54 PM by Franco
i've a DICAT with 234 btryes (source "La Regia Aeronautica 1939-1943" of N. Arena volume I) of this 9 (36 guns) with 88/55 the other modern guns are 480 76/40 and 28 75/48. the Dicat covered also Lybia.
also with anti aircraft work there were 239 btryes of DCA (crews were both milmart (149 btryes) and RM (90))
the guns were 14 100/47, 309 76/40, 84 102/45, 32 90/50.
the DAT (RA) had only 8mm and 20mm in airport defence in north africa
the RE (field) had 18 88/55, 84 75/51, 76 75/46
75/51 maybe a wrong in the source i don't think the RE bought guns from french before of war