Any cases of Italians committing suicide to avoid surrender?
- Thread starter kolja
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kolja
New Member
No I don't have examples, that's why I'm asking. I don't see why it's an odd question. Some Germans killed themselves because they didn't want to see the fall of their regime, others killed themselves because they wanted to escape punishment for their crimes during the war, and others did it because they were worried about falling into enemy hands (particularly the Soviets). I am curious to know if any Italians felt similar to those Germans.
Kolja
My apologies, I didn't mean my comment to be a statement of whether it was a good question. Such questions normally are triggered by reading an example or two and asking whether it was general. I am sure there are some examples, but I am hard pressed to think of any. I believe there were one to two 'suicides' that are considered political assassinations and not suicides.
We will see if others can offer some information.
My apologies, I didn't mean my comment to be a statement of whether it was a good question. Such questions normally are triggered by reading an example or two and asking whether it was general. I am sure there are some examples, but I am hard pressed to think of any. I believe there were one to two 'suicides' that are considered political assassinations and not suicides.
We will see if others can offer some information.
1089maul
Member
Kolja,
The nearest I can suggest were a couple of destroyer Captains who went down with their ships rather than surrender. A form of suicide I would suggest. This example may not fit in with you question as it probably rather more with an old tradition rather than fear of surrendering. I am not currently home at the moment so can’t give you their names. I recall that possibly two of the planned Comandante D’Oro destroyers were to be named after them.
Regards,
Bob
The nearest I can suggest were a couple of destroyer Captains who went down with their ships rather than surrender. A form of suicide I would suggest. This example may not fit in with you question as it probably rather more with an old tradition rather than fear of surrendering. I am not currently home at the moment so can’t give you their names. I recall that possibly two of the planned Comandante D’Oro destroyers were to be named after them.
Regards,
Bob
DrG
Active Member
According to Catholic teaching, suicide is a serious sin which damns the soul of the suicide to hell, unless he was in a state of severe interior turmoil or was mentally incompetent. Therefore, suicide is an option which is chosen more rarely in Italy than in other cultures, such as the Japanese one.
As far as officers are concerned, 1089maul is right in recalling the cases of commanders choosing to die with their sinking ship. I can list these ones: Enrico Baroni (DD Espero), Costantino Borsini (DD Nullo), Costanzo Casana (DD Lanciere), Luigi Corsi (CA Zara), Ugo Fiorelli (auxiliary cruiser Egeo). Teseo Tesei and his 2nd Alcide Pedretti made a suicide attack with their SLC in La Valletta on 26 July 1941.
If we take into account "normal" suicides alone, instead, I cannot recall any example for soldiers or officers, and only a few involving politically active people. One was the journalist Manlio Morgagni, the editor in chief of the news agency "Stefani", who took his life on 26 July 1943, after the fall of Mussolini. Another was the journalist Giovanni Preziosi, who killed himself along with his wife on 27 April 1945, upon the defeat of the RSI at the end of WW2.
As far as officers are concerned, 1089maul is right in recalling the cases of commanders choosing to die with their sinking ship. I can list these ones: Enrico Baroni (DD Espero), Costantino Borsini (DD Nullo), Costanzo Casana (DD Lanciere), Luigi Corsi (CA Zara), Ugo Fiorelli (auxiliary cruiser Egeo). Teseo Tesei and his 2nd Alcide Pedretti made a suicide attack with their SLC in La Valletta on 26 July 1941.
If we take into account "normal" suicides alone, instead, I cannot recall any example for soldiers or officers, and only a few involving politically active people. One was the journalist Manlio Morgagni, the editor in chief of the news agency "Stefani", who took his life on 26 July 1943, after the fall of Mussolini. Another was the journalist Giovanni Preziosi, who killed himself along with his wife on 27 April 1945, upon the defeat of the RSI at the end of WW2.
kolja
New Member
That's a good point. Although I think that Germans (both Catholic and Protestant) are also taught that suicide is a sin, according to the common Christian view of that act. Yet there were still Germans who chose suicide near the end of the war, and not just the Nazi leadership. I have read accounts of ordinary German citizens who killed themselves because they heard stories of Soviet cruelty and didn't want to fall into the hands of the invading Red Army. I wondered perhaps if some Italian citizens in places like Venezia Giulia heard similar stories about the Yugoslav partisans (Foibe massacres etc) and preferred suicide rather than falling into Yugoslav hands?
Thank you for sharing. Those sound more like the ideological suicides that I came across from Nazi Germany.
DrG
Active Member
Yes, these suicides were fully based upon ideological reasons. You can read the last messages left by Morgagni and Preziosi in their Wikipedia pages:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manlio_Morgagni#Death
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Preziosi#Later_career
After all, Mussolini was a journalist to the core and it's not surprising, if you take this into account, that these men who committed suicide for political reasons were two journalists.
DrG
Active Member
Gen. Agenore Frangipani committed suicide on 6 April 1941, because he felt ashamed that he had to comply with the order of surrendering Addis Abeba to the British.
Gen. Tito Agosti took his life on 27 January 1946 while he was in jail waiting for a trial due to his collaboration with the RSI (he had commanded the Littorio Division).
Gen. Tito Agosti took his life on 27 January 1946 while he was in jail waiting for a trial due to his collaboration with the RSI (he had commanded the Littorio Division).
1089maul
Member
Kolja,
How could I have forgotten him??? Carlo Fecia Di Cossato! Italian submarine ace. He is my profile picture on this forum! He committed suicide in Naples. His suicide note is available on Regia Marina net and the Comando Supremo main site. It makes interesting and sad reading!
Bob
How could I have forgotten him??? Carlo Fecia Di Cossato! Italian submarine ace. He is my profile picture on this forum! He committed suicide in Naples. His suicide note is available on Regia Marina net and the Comando Supremo main site. It makes interesting and sad reading!
Bob
DrG
Active Member
I remembered him, but in my opinion his suicide cannot be included in the classification by Kolja. Commander Fecia di Cossato committed suicide because he was placed under arrest after his insubordination towards the Bonomi govern, which hadn't sworn its oath to the King, and probably due to a certain state of psychological depression. This was not linked to the decision to avoid surrender, which was the reason put forward by Kolja and that can certainly be applied to the cases of gen. Frangipani, of the Navy commanders who died with their ships, and of Morgagni and Preziosi. The case of gen. Agosti is borderline, because after all he had surrendered, but he committed suicide because he stated that he didnt' want to be put on trial by "a bunch of traitors". Also the suicide of Marshal Ugo Cavallero, moreover, could not be included in Kolja's classification in my opinion.
1089maul
Member
DrG, Yes totally agree with your comments. I found Kolja’s question interesting to say the least and have been thinking about it probably in more broader terms. Cavellero is another one that I had forgotten even though I have a signed photo of him!! Was it suicide or murder???
Regards,
Bob
Regards,
Bob
DrG
Active Member
Hi Bob! I am inclined to think that Cavallero actually committed suicide. First of all, the theory of a homicide may have been put forward for two reasons, i.e. for the afroementioned religious one and to replace his widespread image as a pro-German and pro-Fascist military leader. The only evidence that could have been in favour of his homicide is the note in Marshal Caviglia's diary about Cavallero hugging him shortly before being taken away by the Germans and whispering in his ear: "They are going to kill me". But we should note that the published version of Caviglia's diary is full of interpolations, therefore whoever modified it may have changed also this episode. Moreover, maybe Cavallero was really fearing for his life when he met Caviglia, but what happened next does not seem to justify this fear. After all, Marshal Kesselring was in good relations with Cavallero and apparently he asked him to command the new Italian fascist armed forces.
Why might Cavallero have feared for his life? In the late summer-autumn of 1942 Mussolini was seriously ill, and Cavallero had planned a regime change in case of inhability of the Duce or of his death, but it was still within the limits of the Statute and would have been carried out only with the King's consent: hardly a crime that would have caused his death about a year later, after weeks spent in jail upon Badoglio's order (twice: he ordered Cavallero's arrest shortly after Mussolini's fall, the King ordered his release, but then Badoglio had him arrested again in connexion to the alleged coup planned by Ettore Muti, who wasn't plotting anything against Badoglio, but was looking for a way to open contacts with the USA for an armistice).
The only physical "evidence" about Cavallero's death is the fact that he had shot himself with his right hand, while he was left-handed. But the Beretta 34 is made to be used by the right hand and, anyway, militars were instructed to use this hand even if they were left-handed. As you may notice, Cavallero always kept his pistol on the right side, as is required by the uniform.
Finally, Cavallero's autopsy was carried out by gen. Alfredo Bucciante, commander of the Medical service of the Army, and his son, the journalist Giuseppe, was present at this operation. Giuseppe Bucciante wrote in the 1984 edition of Cavallero's diary, which he had edited, that neither his father nor him had noticed any evidence to suspect that the Marshal had been killed. In my opinion, this testimony closes the case.
Why might Cavallero have feared for his life? In the late summer-autumn of 1942 Mussolini was seriously ill, and Cavallero had planned a regime change in case of inhability of the Duce or of his death, but it was still within the limits of the Statute and would have been carried out only with the King's consent: hardly a crime that would have caused his death about a year later, after weeks spent in jail upon Badoglio's order (twice: he ordered Cavallero's arrest shortly after Mussolini's fall, the King ordered his release, but then Badoglio had him arrested again in connexion to the alleged coup planned by Ettore Muti, who wasn't plotting anything against Badoglio, but was looking for a way to open contacts with the USA for an armistice).
The only physical "evidence" about Cavallero's death is the fact that he had shot himself with his right hand, while he was left-handed. But the Beretta 34 is made to be used by the right hand and, anyway, militars were instructed to use this hand even if they were left-handed. As you may notice, Cavallero always kept his pistol on the right side, as is required by the uniform.
Finally, Cavallero's autopsy was carried out by gen. Alfredo Bucciante, commander of the Medical service of the Army, and his son, the journalist Giuseppe, was present at this operation. Giuseppe Bucciante wrote in the 1984 edition of Cavallero's diary, which he had edited, that neither his father nor him had noticed any evidence to suspect that the Marshal had been killed. In my opinion, this testimony closes the case.
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