Chertkovo

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#21
Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:33 am by Vitaly

Czarist secret police had vulgar name "Ohranka".
Soviet forces never had divisions symbols. The number of unit was secret always. It was a Soviet tradition. Therefore we still don't know many died solders. For example I don't know where died two my reletives.
You can show photo of your badge. May be I can say something.
By the way Soviet Guardian appeared 1941 but Guardian badges was appeared only in may 1943, after Stalingrad.
 

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#22
Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:59 am by Veltro

Vitaly wrote:To say exactly Guard division is not right. I think right Guardian division. "Guard" in English is defend, save something. Russian translation guard is "ohrana". Russian word "gvardia" has another sence. In 1941 Stalin decided to award the military units name "gvardia". All solders of this units received special badge (http://www.komi.com/nagrada/main/med_25 ... =2&page=25).​
Now I have information only from one article. It say all Rifle divisions in Tchertkovo were guardian.​


'Guards" was an honor title bestowed to units who have distinguished themselves in combat. Yes the correct translation is to "guard" something. That something in this case was mother Russia.
 

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#24
Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:37 am by Lupo Solitario

for vitaly: the term "Guard" (french "Garde", italian "Guardia", etc.) is widely used from XVII Century to indicate elite combat formations (example: Napoleon's "Garde Imperiale") different by more properly defensive units...for my curiosity, which was in russian the name of the ancient Zar's guards?



about original Abel's questions:
I'm collecting data from many sources to have a complete vision of ARMIR artillery and I'm distant from this end, anyway I can tell that:

-substantially in XXXV Corps sector operated:
the 8th Field Artillery Regiment (division Pasubio)
the 30th Corps artillery Raggruppamento (some doubt about composition)
the I battalion of 201st AT regiment
the XXXIV (149/40) and the L (149/28) battalion of 9th Army artillery raggruppamento

All those units retired on Popwka in a first moment, but it seems at Popowka the largest part of 8th artillery followed the Pasubio divisional command towards Gruppo Sud while the remnant artillery units joined Gruppo Nord.

Joined the Gruppo Nord also part of XXXII army battalion (from II Corps sector) and LXXIII army battalion (from XXIX corps sector).
All those had practicaly lost their entire equipement in first phases of retreat

About AA artillery, I got an indication for an unspecified battalion of at least two batteries in Tcherkowo (FB I'd like to look at that book, too)

I hope in september finding some data about composition of italian forces in tcherkowo at the start of the battle

it's really hard finding data about blackshirts
 

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#25
Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:04 pm by Abel Ravasz

Hi Lupo,

sorry for the delayed reply. I've just returned from my holidays and back into action!

Interesting notes about the Italian artillery. Corti also mentions the AA battalion in his book; and also he talks about encountering men from the 201. Mot Art Reg.

Strange to hear that data about Blackshirts is scarce. One would think - considering the publicity of the SS -, that the blackshirts are quite trendy at the moment. The same applies for the Slovak Hlinka Guard. Of course, I'm in no doubt about Your judgement of the situation.

Please let us know if You manage to draw any conclusions from Your research in September,
 

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#26
Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:50 am by Lupo Solitario

Hi all, I've found the data for AA batteries: at 10/12/42 the XXXVIII AA artillery gruppo had the 1st battery at Gartmicevka and 2nd and 3rd at Tcherkowo. I ignore where was the battalion HQ.
 

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#27
Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:51 am by Abel Ravasz

Nice find, Lupo! Now we have some data about the Italian artillery at last!

How many guns would 2 AAA batteries accound for? Would it be twelve?
 

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#28
Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:25 pm by Lupo Solitario

no, eight. The heavy AA battery was on four guns
 
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