Italian Artillery Jun 1940

[jwsleser]

Posted 15 August 2007 - 03:52 AM by donniechris59

Are there any figures out there concerning the number of guns the Italians had on inventory when they entered the war for the following pieces?

65/17 (65mm Infantry Gun)
Model 12 (75 mm Pack Howitzer)
Model 34 (75 mm Pack Howitzer)
Model 11 (75 mm Cavalry Gun)
Model 06 (75 mm Howitzer)
Model 35 (75 mm Howitzer)
Model 37 (75 mm Howitzer)
Model 16 (100 mm Mountain Howitzer)
Model 14 (100 mm Howitzer)
Model 13 (Schneider) (105 mm Howitzer)

Thanks for helping.

Posted 15 August 2007 - 07:10 PM by Daivde Pastore

65/17 (65mm Infantry Gun)
700x 65/17

Model 12 (75 mm Pack Howitzer)
[if you are referring to the 75/13 it is Model 15]
1,187x 75/13

Model 34 (75 mm Pack Howitzer)
114x 75/18-34

Model 11 (75 mm Cavalry Gun)
[negative]
1,073x 75/27-11 (normal version)
268x 75/27-11 T.M. (motorized towing)

[The 75/27 cavalry gun was the Model 12]
51x 75/27-12

Model 06 (75 mm Howitzer)
[negative]
1,298x 75/27-06 (normal version) [#1]
300x 75/27-06 T.M. (motorized towing) [#1]
101x 75/27-06 in cav. (fixed border defences, in cavern)
[#1 - number approximative. Total was 1,598]

Model 35 (75 mm Howitzer)
zero x 75/18-35

Model 37 (75 mm Howitzer)
zero x 75/32

Model 16 (100 mm Mountain Howitzer)
181x 100/17-16

Model 14 (100 mm Howitzer)
1,325x 100/17-14 (normal version)
199x 100/17-14 T.M. (motorized towing)

Model 13 (Schneider) (105 mm Howitzer)
[Uhm! I suppose you are interested in the 105/28, however it was not normally called with a model year, since there was no danger of misindentification]
956x 105/28 [from 100 to 200 were T.M.]

Also:

1,088x 20/65
100x 37/40 [onboard M.11/39]
62x 57/43 & 57/30
928x 47/32
166x 75/27 C.K.
76x 75/46
245x 77/28
120x 105/14
227x 105/32 [an unknown number were T.M.]

(larger calibers skipped)

Main Source: Montanari, L'Esercito Italiano alla Vigilia della 2ª Guerra Mondiale
(plus Cappellano & others)



anyway thank for the segnalation

 

[FrancoFB]

Full list from the Montanari book, list labelled: " Situazione dell'armamento di artiglieria alla data del 1° Giugno 1940"
model actually present / in order
20 M.35 1088 / 1198
20 for tanks 0 / 760
37/40 100 / 10
57/43 & 57/30 62 / 0
47/32 928 / 2783
47/32 for tanks 0 / 643
65/17 700 / 0
75/13 1187 / 0
75/27 M. 906 1598 / 0
75/27 in cavern 101 / 0
75/27 M.11 horse towed 1073 / 0
75/27 M.11 tractor towed 268 / 0
75/27 M.12 51 / 0
75/18 M.34 114 / 0
75/18 M.35 0 / 252
75/34 0 / 192
75/27 C.K. AA 166 / 0
75/46 M.34 AA 76 / 240
77/28 245 / 0
90/53 AA 0 / 1600
100/17 M.14 horse tower 1325 / 0
100/17 M.14 tractor towed 199 / 0
100/17 M.16 181 / 0
105/14 120 / 0
105/28 956 / 0
105/32 227 / 11
120/21 5 / 0
120/40 4 / 0
120/25 30 / 0
149/12 M.14 592 / 0
149/12 M.16 116 / 0
149/13 490 / 0
149/19 1 / 1392
149/35 895 / 0
149/35 A. 24 / 0
149/35 S. 4 / 0
149/40 39 / 731
152/13 88 / 0
152/37 29 / 0
152/45 53 / 0
210/8 D.S. 500 / 0
210/22 16 / 346
260/9 98 / 0
260/9 S. 8 / 0
305/8 - 11 23 / 0
305/8 - 11-16 16 / 0
305/10 16 / 0
305/17 M.16 6 / 0
305/17 G.17 17 / 0
380/15 5 / 0
420/12 7 / 0

 

[FrancoFB]

List from "Archivio Storico Stato Maggiore Esercito - Fondo F4) idk the book where is locate, labelled " Situazione Artiglierie 1° Ottobre 1939 - XVII"
model present / in order / (the list give the forecast delivery quarter from 4th quarter of 39 to 4th quarter of 42, for short i indicated only the cumulative delivery to 2nd quarter of 40)
20 M.35 786 / 1070 / 419
37/40 96 / 0 / 0
57/43 & 57/30 62 / 0 / 0
47 688 / 2840 / 729
65/17 683 / 0 / 0
75/13 1167 / 0 / 0
75/27 M.11 horse towed 1073 / 0 / 0
75/27 M.906 1706 / 0 / 0
75/27 M.11 tractor towed 268 / 0 / 0
75/27 M.12 51 / 0 / 0
75/18 M.34 114 / 0 / 0
75/18 M.35 4 / 252 / 60
75/34 0 / 192 / 0
75/27 C.K. 166 / 0 / 0
75/46 M.34 92/ 240 / 0
100/17 M.14 horse towed 1325 / 0 / 0
100/17 M.14 tractor towed 199 / 0 / 0
100/17 M.16 181 / 0 / 0
105/14 120 / 0 / 0
105/28 945 / 0 / 0
105/32 216 / 22 / 22
120/21 5 / 0 / 0
120/40 4 / 0 / 0
149/12 M.14 580 / 0 / 0
149/12 M.18 116 / 0 / 0
149/13 490 / 0 / 0
149/19 1 / 632 / 0
149/35 A. 24 / 0 / 0
149/35 S. 4 / 0 / 0
149/35 873 / 0 / 0
149/40 8 / 172 / 40
152/13 88 / 0 / 0
152/37 29 / 0 / 0
152/45 53 / 0 / 0
210/8 500 / 0 / 0
260/9 106 / 0 / 0
305/8-11 23 / 0 / 0
305/8-11-16 16 /0 / 0
305/10 16 / 0 / 0
305/17 G.16 10 / 0 / 0
305/17 G.17 17 / 0 / 0
380/15 5 / 0 / 0
420/12 7 / 0 / 0
MACA (AA MVSN crewed)
20 M.35 16 / 988 / 188
37/54 0 / 500 / 14
75/27 A.V. 94 / 0 / 0
76/40 453 / 39 / 39
76/45 232 /0 / 0
77/28 AA 82 / 0 / 0
90/53 0 / 408 / 8

 

[FrancoFB]

comparing the October '39 and June '40 list
pieces not in order with same number in the two list:
57/43&57/30: 62
75/27 M.11 horse towed: 1073
75/27 M.11 tractor towed: 268
75/27 M.12: 51
75/18 M.34: 114
75/27 C. K.: 166
100/17 M.14 horse towed: 1325
100/17 M.14 tractor towed: 199
100/17 M.16: 181
105/14: 120
120/21: 5
120/40: 4
149/12 M.16&16/18: 116
149/13: 490
149/35 A.: 24
149/35 S.: 4
152/13: 88
152/37: 29
152/45: 53
210/8 D.S.: 500
260/9 (S. included): 106
305/8 M.11: 23
305/8 M.11/16: 16
305/10: 16
305/17 G. M.17: 17
380/15: 5
420/12: 7

pieces not in order with different number in the two list: (october -june)
65/17: 683-700
75/13: 1167-1187
75/27 M.906 (in cavern included): 1706-1699
77/28: 0 - 245
105/28: 945-956
120/25: 0-30
149/12 M.14: 580-592
149/35: 873-895
305/17 G. M.16: 10-6

pieces in production or in order, existing quantity. (october-june-october forecast for the first july '40)
20/65 M.35: 786-1088-1205
37/40: 96-100-(was not in order in october)
47/32: 688-928-1447
75/18 M.35: 4-0-64
75/46: 92-76-92
105/32: 216-227-238
149/19: 1-1-1
149/40: 8-39-48
210/22: 7-16-22

comments:
imho the October '39 list is for the RE only in Italy (missing of 70/15, 77/28, 104/32, 120/25), the compiler* of June '40 list noting the absence of 77/28 and 120/25 will have reported numbers taken from another type of document

* the author of the book of the June '40 list is the same of official history for north africa campaign

 

[johntorcasio]

A photo of my father
Giuseppe Torcasio: Italian forces in uniform with heavy artillery regiment insignia on his peaked visor cap, WWII North Africa.

 

[1089maul]

John,

Thanks for posting a great picture of your father. I have always liked the personal anecdotes or photographs of members families. Can you give us a mini biography of your father during WW2?

Regards,

Bob

 

[johntorcasio]

Their job was mostly to patrol the shoreline looking for any enemy ships trying to land he traveled in one of four tracks two Italian and two German all towing a heavy howitzer. He saw action in Tobruk and El Alamein, From all the near-misses he had from bombings and machine gunfire from aircraft my dad once told me he was not meant to die in Africa. My father passed away in 2012 three days short of his 93rd birthday.