by Toppers » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:07 am
Mussolini and the MafiaI know he had some success, but is there any general feeling on this?
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by Fanatic_Blitzer » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:19 am
I remember reading that the Mafia didn't have much room to practice their terrorizing during the Fascist era. Mussolini froze their actions and eve made them flee to America.
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by Toppers » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:29 am
correct the "iron prefect "saw to that, but he stopped so far due to finding the upper members linked to some senators and other government officials. But did it actually reduce crime?
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by Gian » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:58 pm
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by Davide Pastore » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:13 pm
In Mafia-controlled areas, there is actually very little "crime" (if you mean, for example, being assaulted while walking on the street). Of course, you will probably be asked for a "protection" fee for your own shop - and may God help you if you don't pay - but as long as you pay, you don't see, you don't hear and you don't talk, life is OK.
Having said that, the story that Mussolini fought Mafia is pure fiction. Mori was only allowed to jail some very little fishes, for propaganda's sake. Mafia power under Fascism was pretty the same as before it and after it.
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by Figlio di un Alpino » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:19 pm
There was a really good documentary on this topic on the History Channel a while back. It dealt with the American invasion of Sicily. The Americans used the Mafia to prepare the island for the invasion. The Mafia hated Mussolini because he had come down hard on them. According to this documentary, the Mafia was seriously damaged by Mussolini.
It was a very interesting show, with lots of other things I never knew. Like how the Mafia in the US showed its muscle in the US with the Unions.
Tony C
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by Davide Pastore » Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:45 pm
A case of "I saw it on TV, so it must be true"?
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by Veltro » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:21 am
Apparently he went after the mafia from the bottom up. Most( not all) of the mafia leaders were not prosecuted ( lack of evidence) while Ceaser Mori ( Mussolini: Jasper Ridley; Constable 1997) to root them out which he did with a vengeance. Apparently sending the word out to those Mafiosi that escaped to the hills that their families would take their place at the trials.
Trials they were...154 defendants were charged 8 were convicted. The defendants included ( most ) those young men who went to night clubs etc....
Eddy
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by Figlio di un Alpino » Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:16 pm
I not sure that it is true or not, just writing what I saw. However, the show did point to many just recently de-classified US Military documents. They actually showed US Generals meeting with the "Men of Honor" and agreeing to terms. They kept saying how these "Men of Honor" were very willing to help the US because they were against Mussolini.
Tony C
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by quillin » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:16 am
apart from the docu, do you or anybody has more info about the maffia working together with the allies prior to the invasion of Sicily. This is a topic i love to know more about it.
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by Figlio di un Alpino » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:57 am
There are apparently some now declassified US documents that show how close the US-based Mafia was working with US authorities here during the war. The Mafia controlled the shipyards and ports in the US. The FBI was trying to clean things up in this area and to show how powerful the Mafia was, they carried out some pretty significant sabotage in the shipyards. The military asked the FBI to back off and in return, the Mafia provided a no problem labor environment in the shipyards and docks. There were no labor actions during the war in these areas. Remember that the unions were Mafia controlled at this time.
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by 184 Nembo » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:14 pm
quillin,
Lucky Luciano who was in jail in the United States negotiated with the united states naval intelligence for his early release from jail prior to Operation Husky.
If you subscribe to and watch RAI International channel sometimes if you're lucky you will come across open discussions about Operation Husky. The good part of the discussions I like is that they have representatives representing for example; The allied force, and also a veteran from The Italian 6th army, etc. describing their accounts of the event.
Mussolini and the MafiaI know he had some success, but is there any general feeling on this?
--------------
by Fanatic_Blitzer » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:19 am
I remember reading that the Mafia didn't have much room to practice their terrorizing during the Fascist era. Mussolini froze their actions and eve made them flee to America.
--------------
by Toppers » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:29 am
correct the "iron prefect "saw to that, but he stopped so far due to finding the upper members linked to some senators and other government officials. But did it actually reduce crime?
---------------
by Gian » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:58 pm
That's right, Cesare Mori came down very hard with the Mafia. He even conducted a massive round-up in a town near Palermo, known to be a Mafia stronghold. But as soon as he started to uncover ties between Mafia and politics, he was appointed senator, while the press announced nationwide that Mafia had been defeated. In fact, it never disappeared completely: some major leaders simply took refuge abroad.
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by Davide Pastore » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:13 pm
In Mafia-controlled areas, there is actually very little "crime" (if you mean, for example, being assaulted while walking on the street). Of course, you will probably be asked for a "protection" fee for your own shop - and may God help you if you don't pay - but as long as you pay, you don't see, you don't hear and you don't talk, life is OK.
Having said that, the story that Mussolini fought Mafia is pure fiction. Mori was only allowed to jail some very little fishes, for propaganda's sake. Mafia power under Fascism was pretty the same as before it and after it.
------------------
by Figlio di un Alpino » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:19 pm
There was a really good documentary on this topic on the History Channel a while back. It dealt with the American invasion of Sicily. The Americans used the Mafia to prepare the island for the invasion. The Mafia hated Mussolini because he had come down hard on them. According to this documentary, the Mafia was seriously damaged by Mussolini.
It was a very interesting show, with lots of other things I never knew. Like how the Mafia in the US showed its muscle in the US with the Unions.
Tony C
----------------
by Davide Pastore » Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:45 pm
A case of "I saw it on TV, so it must be true"?
------------------
by Veltro » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:21 am
Apparently he went after the mafia from the bottom up. Most( not all) of the mafia leaders were not prosecuted ( lack of evidence) while Ceaser Mori ( Mussolini: Jasper Ridley; Constable 1997) to root them out which he did with a vengeance. Apparently sending the word out to those Mafiosi that escaped to the hills that their families would take their place at the trials.
Trials they were...154 defendants were charged 8 were convicted. The defendants included ( most ) those young men who went to night clubs etc....
Eddy
--------------------
by Figlio di un Alpino » Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:16 pm
I not sure that it is true or not, just writing what I saw. However, the show did point to many just recently de-classified US Military documents. They actually showed US Generals meeting with the "Men of Honor" and agreeing to terms. They kept saying how these "Men of Honor" were very willing to help the US because they were against Mussolini.
Tony C
------------------
by quillin » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:16 am
apart from the docu, do you or anybody has more info about the maffia working together with the allies prior to the invasion of Sicily. This is a topic i love to know more about it.
-------------
by Figlio di un Alpino » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:57 am
There are apparently some now declassified US documents that show how close the US-based Mafia was working with US authorities here during the war. The Mafia controlled the shipyards and ports in the US. The FBI was trying to clean things up in this area and to show how powerful the Mafia was, they carried out some pretty significant sabotage in the shipyards. The military asked the FBI to back off and in return, the Mafia provided a no problem labor environment in the shipyards and docks. There were no labor actions during the war in these areas. Remember that the unions were Mafia controlled at this time.
----------
by 184 Nembo » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:14 pm
quillin,
Lucky Luciano who was in jail in the United States negotiated with the united states naval intelligence for his early release from jail prior to Operation Husky.
If you subscribe to and watch RAI International channel sometimes if you're lucky you will come across open discussions about Operation Husky. The good part of the discussions I like is that they have representatives representing for example; The allied force, and also a veteran from The Italian 6th army, etc. describing their accounts of the event.
