Organisation of Carri L battalion

[Dili]

I think i have never seen the structure of this type of unit despite being so numerous at war start. How many troops, trucks, dovunque?, motorcycles?


Btw if anyone have the structure of "Santi" cavalry groups of Celere Div's would be also welcome

 

[diciassette2000]

The 1940 carri L3/33 or L3/35 TOE was this:
-Comando
-Compagnia Comando (HQ coy)(4 off, 71 private/tankers,1 tank, 1 cars,4 trucks,3 motorcicles, 1 shop trucks)
-Compagnia carri (x3) (tank coy) (each /5 off, 90 private/tankers,15 tanks, 1 cars, 2 trucks,3 motorciles)
-Battalion transport squadron (4 private, 93 men,6 trucks, 5 moto)

This was the TOE of the Type 1940 tank battalion for tank infantry units. The three armored cavalry groups of the swift divisions (what you correctly but unconventionally call saints) were instead considered as armored cavalry units and therefore had a different toe and more precisely:
-Command squadron
Motor vehicles
n. 8 cars, no. 2 motorcycles, 1 fast carriage "L"
staff
n. 7 officers, n. 55 non-commissioned officers and soldiers
-4 "L" wagon squadrons each on Command with 3 "L" wagons and three platoons of 4 wagons each
Vehicles (x4)
n. 3 trucks, n. 3 motorcycles, 15 "L" high-speed wagons
Staff (x2)
n. 4 officers, n. 48 non-commissioned officers and soldiers
Motor vehicles
n. 14 motorcycles, no. 20 cars
staff
n. 23 officers, no. 247 non-commissioned officers and soldiers
Department armament
n. 61 "L" tanks each equipped with 2 machine guns for a total of 122 and 18 submachine guns (counted as heavy machine guns)
Equipment
5 Radio
Consider that in compliance with the "do it yourself" of normal Italian imprint none of the tank units existing at the time of the beginning of the hostilities, however, had that exact toe. In fact, in many cases transport was lacking and also in many cases the operating wagons were by now obsolete types.

All the best
Maurizio

 

[Dili]

Many thanks, Maurizio. You don't know what kind of trucks, if there any heavy ones?

 

[diciassette2000]

All light trucks ........
All the best
Maurizio

 

[Dili]

Sorry to ask one more but the translation bungled the Santi. Can you post it in Italian?

Edit: carri L = tankette

It reads to me like:

-Command squadron -
n. 7 officers, n. 55 non-commissioned officers and soldiers
8 cars (shouild be automezzi?), 2 motorcycles 1 carri L

-4 "L" squadrons. -
Each: . 4 officers, n. 48 non-commissioned officers and soldiers (in your text says x2 i suppose it is x4)
Each : 3 carri L HQ + 3 Plts of 4 carri L each , Plt total 15 carri L, 3 trucks (automezzi?), 3 motorcycles


I suppose these values are totals
n. 14 motorcycles, 2+4x3=14

no. 20 cars 8+4x3=20 - probably automezzi which means either cars or trucks.

n. 23 officers, no. 247 non-commissioned officers and soldiers with 18 with Beretta sub machine guns for security.

5 radio. I suppose 1 in Command and 1 in each squadron.

 

[diciassette2000]

Italian original from SME

Gruppo carri “L” (ufficiale)

-Squadrone comando

Automezzi

n. 8 autoveicoli, n. 2 motocicli , n.1 carro veloce “L”

Personale

n. 7 ufficiali, n. 55 sottufficiali e soldati

-4 Squadroni carri “L” ognuno su Comando con 3 carri “L” e tre plotoni di 4 carri ciascuno

Automezzi (x4)

n. 3 autocarri, n. 3 motocicli, n.15 carri veloce “L”

Personale (x2)

n. 4 ufficiali, n. 48 sottufficiali e soldati

Automezzi

n. 14 motocicli, n. 20 autoveicoli

Personale
n. 23 ufficiali, n. 247 sottufficiali e soldati

Armamento di reparto

n. 61 carri “L” ciascuno fornito di 2 mitragliatrici per un totale di 122 e 18 fucili mitragliatori (computati come mitragliatrici pesanti)

Dotazioni

5 Radio

All the best
Maurizio

 

[Dili]

Thanks, numbers are not right. It must be like i said above. With totals and personnel x4.

Only then there are 23 uff. 7+4x4=23

55+4x48=247 sottuff. soldati.

 

[diciassette2000]

yes, in fact, the error is in the original of the time in the squadron personnel, the multiplier is obviously 4 and not 2 (4 squadrons and a command squadron) therefore:
Squadron command 7 officers and 55 non-commissioned officers and soldiers and Squadron 4x4 tanks = 16 officers and 48 non-commissioned officers and soldiers x 4 = 192. In total 7 + 16 = 23 officers and 55 + 192 = 247 non-commissioned officers and soldiers. However, it was quite frequent that even at the time there were errors in the originals.
All the best
Maurizio

 

[FrancoFB]

The 1940 carri L3/33 or L3/35 TOE was this:
-Comando
-Compagnia Comando (HQ coy)(4 off, 71 private/tankers,1 tank, 1 cars,4 trucks,3 motorcicles, 1 shop trucks)
-Compagnia carri (x3) (tank coy) (each /5 off, 90 private/tankers,15 tanks, 1 cars, 2 trucks,3 motorciles)
-Battalion transport squadron (4 private, 93 men,6 trucks, 5 moto)


All the best
Maurizio

too many man in this organization, if i read right this is 457 men for a 3 coy btl, when the 4 coy btl had 270 men.

also the "infantry" tank btl had the fucili mitragliatori?

note on translation the fucile mitragliatore is not a sub machine-gun is a LMG like the Bren or the BAR, and were not built by Beretta but by Breda

 

[FrancoFB]

I've found an other table for the L-3 tank btln
Comando e plotone comando; 5 officer, 4 NCO, 51 enlisted, 1 car, 6 trucks, 2 motorcycles, 1 L-3
3 Compagnie carri each: 4 officer, 6 NCO, 42 enlisted, 2 trucks, 3 motorcycles, 15 L-3

total 17 officer, 22 NCO, 177 enlisted, 1 car, 12 trucks, 11 motorcycles, 46 L-3

 

[FrancoFB]

In the "L'esercito italiano tra la 1a e la 2a guerra mondiale" there is a table for the Gruppo carri L
in italian
comando con squadrone comando su due plotoni: (un plotone comando con un carro L comando, 1 squadra maggiorità, 1 squadra riparazioni e recupero, 1 autodrappello) (un plotone carri L di riserva su quattro dezioni da due carri L ognuna)

quattro squadroni carri L, ciascuno su tre plotoni (con quattro carri L per plotone)

totale: 23 ufficiali, 29 sottufficiali, 260 truppa, 61 carri L, 1 autovettura, 11 autocarri, 10 trattori, 1 autofficina, 8 rimorchietti, 16 motocicli, 16 motomitragliatrici*, 35 carrelli, 13 rampe di carico.

*this would be a moto with a MG

 

[Kustosz2137]

The 1940 carri L3/33 or L3/35 TOE was this:
-Comando
-Compagnia Comando (HQ coy)(4 off, 71 private/tankers,1 tank, 1 cars,4 trucks,3 motorcicles, 1 shop trucks)
-Compagnia carri (x3) (tank coy) (each /5 off, 90 private/tankers,15 tanks, 1 cars, 2 trucks,3 motorciles)
-Battalion transport squadron (4 private, 93 men,6 trucks, 5 moto)

This was the TOE of the Type 1940 tank battalion for tank infantry units. The three armored cavalry groups of the swift divisions (what you correctly but unconventionally call saints) were instead considered as armored cavalry units and therefore had a different toe and more precisely:
-Command squadron
Motor vehicles
n. 8 cars, no. 2 motorcycles, 1 fast carriage "L"
staff
n. 7 officers, n. 55 non-commissioned officers and soldiers
-4 "L" wagon squadrons each on Command with 3 "L" wagons and three platoons of 4 wagons each
Vehicles (x4)
n. 3 trucks, n. 3 motorcycles, 15 "L" high-speed wagons
Staff (x2)
n. 4 officers, n. 48 non-commissioned officers and soldiers
Motor vehicles
n. 14 motorcycles, no. 20 cars
staff
n. 23 officers, no. 247 non-commissioned officers and soldiers
Department armament
n. 61 "L" tanks each equipped with 2 machine guns for a total of 122 and 18 submachine guns (counted as heavy machine guns)
Equipment
5 Radio
Consider that in compliance with the "do it yourself" of normal Italian imprint none of the tank units existing at the time of the beginning of the hostilities, however, had that exact toe. In fact, in many cases transport was lacking and also in many cases the operating wagons were by now obsolete types.

All the best
Maurizio

Seems like all tanks in cavalry units were MG armed, but how about tank infantry battalions? Were there any Lanciafiamme vechicles in their structures, or they all used MGs too?