david posted on 19 January 2012
I'm trying to compile a list of all the units, including statico and da posizione that were in the Tobruk fortress on 10th June 1940.
Would you all like to contribute by adding to it and where necessary correcting it.
Here's what I've got...
XXXI Battaglione Libica Costieri Defence
G.a.F Reggimento 31. Sub Settore (a)
G.a.F Reggimento 31. Sub Settore (b
XXXI Battaglione G.a.F. Misto Genio
XXXI Battaglione G.a.F
V Gruppo. 31st G.a.F Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria
VI gruppo. 31st G.a.F Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria
VII/VIII Gruppi. 31st G.a.F Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria
G.a.F Reggimento 32. Sub Settore (a)
G.a.F Reggimento 32. Sub Settore (b
I Gruppo. 32nd G.a.F Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria
II Gruppo. 32nd G.a.F Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria
III Gruppo. 32nd G.a.F Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria
( At Sidi Daud, which I think is within the perimeter)
L Gruppo. (20th C.C.N.N.) Controaerea
LI Gruppo. (20th C.C.N.N.) Controaerea
LII Gruppo. (20th C.C.N.N.?) Controaerea.
(37th Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria Controaerea)
Regia Marina Gruppo D'Artiglieria (5x 102/35 Btr) + (3x 149/47 Btr)
Plus several other "maybe", which I will not post yet, as this list is already pretty long!
Thanks in advance,
David.
Dili posted on 19 January 2012
XXXI Settore di Copertura "Tobruch Ovest" (Ras el Meduar)
Sottosettore XXXI/A
Sottosettore XXXI/B
XXXI Btg.GAF (3 co HMG+ Co cannone 37/10 - source Ramius)
31 or 310° Raggruppamento Artiglieria Guardia alla Frontiera(unclear when the renaming occurred)
XXXII Settore di Copertura "Tobruch Est" (Sidi Daud)
Sottosettore XXXII/A
Sottosettore XXXII/B
XXI Battaglione Fanteria Libico(not GAF)
32 or 320° Raggruppamento Artiglieria GAF(same comment of 31)
I and II Gruppo Mitraglieri da 20 Milizia Controaerei (DICAT/MACA).
Settore Militare Marittimo "Tobruch"
149/47 CD 3 batteries
102/35 DP 4 batteries
76/40 AA 4 batteries
37/54 Binate AA x8(so 4 Binate systems)
13.2 AA x10 some maybe binate or not.
Sound Detectors x8
david posted on 22 March 2012
Does anyone have the composition or Tabelle Organiche for the XXXI Battaglione Libica Costieri Defence?
Dili posted on 22 March 2012
I don't have that unit. Mixup with GAF one?
david posted on 22 March 2012
Could be I suppose?
So anyone have XXXI Battaglione Libici?
Dili posted on 23 March 2012
I understand that it was manned with Italian troops, not Libyan.
arturolorioli posted on 24 March 2012
I have the following Libyan Coastal Defence bns (but can't trace the source, will have to check, so take everything with a *big* grain of salt).
30th Libyan Coastal Defence Bn : 28th GaF Sector
31st Libyan Coastal Defence Bn : 32nd/b GaF Sector
32nd Libyan Coastal Defence Bn : 29th GaF Sector
35th Libyan Coastal Defence Bn : 31st GaF Sector
I have no clue about the location of the other two (33rd and 34th), but I have the 34th as briefly rebuilt using personnel from other Libyan bns destroyed during Compass, so I suppose it had been previously destroyed or disbanded too, and as such had been probably located in Cirenaica (30th Sector at Bardia? But that's just 100% educated guessing).
Dili posted on 24 March 2012
So the Nalut Settore went to the coast? What was the Sottosettore on Coast?: XXIX/a Ain el Ghezaia, XXIX/b Ras er Reab, Sottosettore autonomo Uadi Hammar
david posted on 25 March 2012
Dili,
Some confusion perhaps.
The XXXI Battaglione Libica Costieri Defence I refered to is an Italian unit, based it Libya, not a Libyan Battalion. Which if I understand correctly is what you were refering to.
david posted on 25 March 2012
Further to the above, I do also have a XXXI G.a.F Battaglione, with 3x Compagnis Mitraglieri & 1x Compagnia Contro Carro.
But could this be the Costieri Defense Battaglione? Or is it a seperate one?
Were Costieri Defense Battaglione G.a.F?
arturolorioli posted on 26 March 2012
Yes, there is certainly some confusion.
Units formed by Libyan personnel were named :
* For Platoon, Battalion, Regiment, Raggruppamento: Libico (singular) or Libici (plural)
* For Company, Battery, Division): Libica (singular) or Libiche (plural)
A few units formed by Italian personnel for service in Libya were named "della Libia" if there was a need to avoid confusion with other units raised for service in Italy (so for example the I Legione CCNN della Libia, to avoid confusion with the Ist Legione CCNN "Sabauda" of Torino etc). In some case they are improperly reported as "Libico", and that could generate some confusion.
In this case, AFAIK all the coastal defence infantry battalions serving in Libya were "Libici", i.e. formed by Libyan (native) personnel. I've never heard of Italian (national) coastal defence bns serving in North Africa.
arturolorioli posted on 26 March 2012
So the Nalut Settore went to the coast? What was the Sottosettore on Coast?: XXIX/a Ain el Ghezaia, XXIX/b Ras er Reab, Sottosettore autonomo Uadi Hammar
*If* a coastal battalion was attached to this sector, I suppose that the sector extended up to the coast. I have no clue which subsector - in case - could have been located near the coast. But I'm still trying to remember the sources I used, until then I repeat please take all those infos with a big grain of salt.
david posted on 29 March 2012
Just to recap, do we think that the following units are the same or different?
XXXI Battaglione G.a.F.
XXXI Battaglione Costieri Libico.
arturolorioli posted on 29 March 2012
No hard data about that, so honestly I doesn't have a factual answer.
That said, the Libyan Coastal Bns could have been (and probably had been) attached to the GaF sectors, but they were most definitivelt *not* part of the GaF. So I *suppose* we are talking about two different units here. But, again, it's just educated guesswork.
david posted on 14 June 2013
What do we know about the mobility (or lack of it) of the guns of I,II,III & IV Gruppi. 32nd G.a.F Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria?
dili posted on 14 June 2013
The raggruppamento should have some trucks but for support the unit and if needed move some guns. I don't think they had trucks for all guns.
david posted on 23 July 2015
And the Batteria that composed II Gruppo. 32nd G.a.F Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria were?
diciassette2000 posted on 23 July 2015
David, the batteries of 32.o Raggruppamento GAF(all 77/28) were (July 1940) put in charge at Raggruppamento anticarro GAF of Tobruk fortress, at august-september were partially put in charge at various garison units of Giarabub, Fortress Maddalena, Garn el Grein and so on.....many of these pieces are "mobilized" or "motorized" from Tobruk fortres "officine"......When Tobruk fortress fell (January 1941) GAF Tobruk garrison have only 22 of these pieces (all in GAF weapons pit and bunkers)...
david posted on 23 July 2015
One of them was 246th Batteria.
diciassette2000 posted on 23 July 2015
yes the only 77/28 GAF batteries in Tobruk at January 1941 were the 246.a and 247.a
....all the best
maurizio
One of them was 246th Batteria.
All the best
Maurizio
david posted on 24 July 2015
Thanks for the confirmation.
247o Batteria was, I believe in III/32.
I am still looking for the numbers of the other two 77/28 Batteria within II/32 at 10th June.