Italian Tanks on the Russian Front

[Webmaster]

Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:40 am by Tankredi

I need to know which types of tanks, semoventes and autacarri blindati the Italians used on the Russian front.
Anyone can help me with a little list?
A short description or a picture of the cammo of the vehicle described would be an optional and highly appreciated feature!
Thanks!

 

[Webmaster]

Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:57 am by ADOLPHO87

I can give you only a very short list:
-L3's
-L6/40
-Semovente L40 47/32
And I can suggest you a snow camo. It will take less paint and will be very proper for that front

 

[Webmaster]

Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:03 am by urza1

CSIR composition

Divisioni di Fanteria Pasubio
(79° e 80° Rgt. Fanteria e 8° Rgt. Artiglieria divisionale)

Torino
(81° e 82° Rgt. Fanteria e 52° Rgt. Artiglieria Divisionale)

Divisione Celere
(3° Rgt. Bersaglieri, Rgt. Cavalleria Savoia Cavalleria e Lancieri di Novara, Rgt. Artiglieria a cavallo e un gruppo carri L/6)

I know that there were only l\6...

 

[Webmaster]

Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:12 am by ADOLPHO87

You forgot about the ARMIR!

Besides, there was also XIII. Gruppo Semoventi on the russian front.

 

[Webmaster]

Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:51 am by Franco

My sources not report L6/40 tanks in Russian front only semoventi L 40 da 47/32 and the L3 in Divisione Celere, but non in same time of semoventi

 

[Webmaster]

Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:08 am by ADOLPHO87

L6's were used in LXVII. Battaglione Bersaglieri Corazzato. That unit was part of the 3rd celere div. BTW, I've just found that at the beginning CSIR had 60 pcs of L3.

 

[Webmaster]

Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:00 pm by Lupo Solitario

resuming:

III "San Giorgio" Fast Tank Group: from summer 1941 to spring 1942, 4 troops on 61 L3 tanks

LXVII Armored Bersaglieri Battalion: from spring 1942 to winter 1943, 2 companies on 31 L6 tanks

XIII/14° "Alessandria Light Cavalry" Squadron: from spring 1942 to winter 1943, 2 troops on 19 47mm semoventi

all units depending by 3rd Celere Division

 

[Webmaster]

Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:32 pm by ADOLPHO87

Do you have also any list of AB's used in Russia?

 

[Webmaster]

Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:09 pm by pg

They must have had serious trouble facing Russian tanks with the kind of kit people are describing. Didnt they design a large calibre Semovente specifically for the Russian front to combat the T34s???

 

[Webmaster]

Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:53 pm by Veltro

A short description or a picture of the cammo of the vehicle described would be an optional and highly appreciated feature​

The Eastern Front; armour camoflage and markings, 1941 to 1945

Zaloga & Grandsen: Suadron Signal publications

Good reference book on all the armoured forces tha fought in the east. Reguarding Italian camoflage it states that they were sent in original desert camoflage. Giallo sabbia scuro ( dark yellow sand colour overall). The authors further state that "mud" was smeared over the tank to help diffuse the colour.

The authors also state that there were in fact L6/40 tanks. Actually a photo of one with the Russian who "killed it" with his anti tank rifle. That should give you an answer pg, never mind the t34's!!

 

[Webmaster]

Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:55 pm by daveh

Zaloga and Grandsen in The Eastern Front
state that the L6/40 tanks and the 47/32 semovente were finished in dark yellow sand colour overall = giallo sabbia scuro.

This was often smeared with mud to improve the camouflage.

 

[Webmaster]

Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:15 pm by Lupo Solitario

ADOLPHO87 wrote:
Do you have also any list of AB's used in Russia?
Adolpho​

AFAIK there were none...no official source name them

 

[Webmaster]

Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:42 pm by ADOLPHO87

But there must have been some kind of AB used in Russia

It would be strange if Italians didn't used them there...

BTW, here's a photo of L6/40 on the east.
http://www.ostpanzer.boom.ru/elefant2.jpg

 

[Webmaster]

Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:00 am by FB

The only AB used on the eastern front that I think I know of were those of an RSI Unit. Not Regio Esercito then. There must be something here or on another forum about this. I remember to have discussed the matter (not related to ABs, but to Italian units still fighting with the Germans post-Sept 1943) with Lupo time ago. Maybe he has a better memory than me

Best regards

 

[Webmaster]

Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:22 am by Barbarigo

FB wrote:
The only AB used on the estern front that I think I know of were those of an RSI Unit. Not Regio Esercito then. There must be something here or on another forum about this. I remeber to have discussed the matter (not related to ABs, but to Italian units still fighting with the Germans post Sept 1943) with Lupo time ago. Maybe he has a better memory than me

Best regards​

RSI's units used AS42 (no AB) on the eastern front. The vehicles was used by part of X Arditi, that remained with the Germans and followed the 2nd Fallshirmjager to Russia:

http://www.webalice.it/fam.dibilio/Nemb ... R.S.I..htm

 

[Webmaster]

Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:00 am by ADOLPHO87

But take a look at this website:
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/italy/ArmoredCars.htm
They mention that AB41 was used in Russia. One of polish books states the same. But I can't find any photographic evidence.
Adolpho
BTW, here's also interesting site:
http://afvinteriors.hobbyvista.com/ab40/ab40a.html

 

[Webmaster]

Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:11 am by Lupo Solitario

ADOLPHO87 wrote:But there must have been some kind of AB used in Russia

It would be strange if Italians didn't used them there...

BTW, here's a photo of L6/40 on the east.
http://www.ostpanzer.boom.ru/elefant2.jpg

Cheers
Adolpho​

Nothing strange when italian army is involved...anyway the point is:

no CSIR/ARMIR OOB lists AB units (and I know it quite well)
no AB pic I know is related to russian front
no list of AB units names employment on russian front
no affordable evidence of witness speaks about AB in Russia

there are only some 2nd or 3rd level source which occasionally tell about it...I tend to keep it as a legend.

About after 1943 period, no data, I tend to agree with Barbarigo and FB

 

[Webmaster]

Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:14 am by pg

Those L6/40s in the photo dont look too healthy! I take it the guy lying down isnt sleeping then

What thickness of armour did the L6/40 have, and was it the heaviest AFV they had?

 

[Webmaster]

Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:27 am by ADOLPHO87

Lupo Solitario wrote:Nothing strange when italian army is involved...anyway the point is:
no CSIR/ARMIR OOB lists AB units (and I know it quite well)
no AB pic I know is related to russian front
no list of AB units names employment on russian front
no affordable evidence of witness speaks about AB in Russia
there are only some 2nd or 3rd level source which occasionally tell about it...I tend to keep it as a legend.
About after 1943 period, no data, I tend to agree with Barbarigo and FB
bye
Lupo​

I agree. I know what you mean. But I hope that someday any evidences will pop up.

 

[Webmaster]

Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:30 am by ADOLPHO87

pg wrote:Those L6/40s in the photo dont look too healthy! I take it the guy lying down isnt sleeping then

What thickness of armour did the L6/40 have, and was it the heaviest AFV they had?​

L6's armour had 6-30mm and weight was ca 6800 kg. According to polish book